4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
Post Reply
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Just starting to unpack and inventory Ben Hammer’s 1/3 rd scale, (4” scale), 15” gauge, 4-4-0 “American” pattern set. So far the patterns appear to be in excellent condition. Suitable for sending off to the foundry for casting as is, in most cases. Ben adopted the Sandley Locomotive Works 4-4-0 design for his two locomotives. These are the same class of Sandley locomotive currently restored and operated by the Riverside and Great Northern RR in the Wisconsin Dells, Wi area.

Ben purchased castings, parts, and in some cases patterns from Sandely. However, he also conducted extensive independent, historical research, and contracted with several professional pattern makers still working in Southern California in 1968, to create specific, historically accurate, new patterns for some of his components. These are included in the collection.

If anybody is interested in building a 1/3 re scale steam locomotive, or, in need of individual components, such as couplers, wheels, or journal box couplers, etc, contact me off list, or via PM and we can discuss. For example, I am interested in making an initial run of couplers, to replace the undersized stuff currently on my rolling stock. Happy to add your needs to the list, as needed.

Also, I have a limited set of castings for Ben’s third engine. Exquisite cast bronze fittings for the smoke stack, and sand domes, three 20” diameter spoked drivers, and a few other loco parts. These will be likely available as well. But need to be unpacked and sorted.

I will be posting photos and dimensions of the major components on this thread over the next week or so. Patterns include the cylinder and saddle, 20” diameter spoked drivers, 10” spoked tender wheels, 4.5” wide Janney type E coupler (modern AAR style) and numerous ancillary patterns for the valve gear, boiler and backhead.

Starting small, here is a photo of one of the (multiple) coupler patterns. 4.5” wide, 5” long, 1.75” depth of knuckle face to throat.
1C474BEC-9869-42CB-A833-49DEBDECFAFA.jpeg
A688E4ED-95B7-42AC-BE3D-3AB87C9D5B3A.jpeg
Cheers,
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
0351
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:08 pm
Location: Behind enemy lines

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by 0351 »

Wonder how these couplers would look on 3” scale locomotive verses the 2.5” couplers?
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 14:6 (KJV)
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Glenn Brooks »

0351, here’s a comparison of the current RMI 2.5” scale coupler side side side with these 4” scale. They would certainly be more robust looking. Striking actually on 3” equipment.

My rolling stock has always had couplers to small for the equipment, functional, but sort of detracting from the overall appearance of usefulness, by their wimpyness. So one reason I am interested in what could be down with these castings.
228E22BF-DB1C-4043-A3DF-07E2BEF80125.jpeg
384BDA7E-F71B-43D0-BB3C-58C0D663EBAD.jpeg
And, here is the matching coupler pocket... the pocket is 8” long, x 5” tall. Center opening:3” Wide x 2.75” tall. 1/2” wall thickness.
ECB8F393-D9B7-4DEE-AB78-45EA77ABFD80.jpeg
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
0351
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:08 pm
Location: Behind enemy lines

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by 0351 »

Thanks for the comparison pictures. Big difference.
What are the overall dimensions of the coupler pocket? How many to you need to sell to make a run of these couplers? Any estimate yet per set?
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 14:6 (KJV)
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Next up are two sizes of wheels, and an 1890 era axle box pedestal - at least that’s what I think it is called....

The six spoked wood wheel is 9.5” diameter, (12” OD” with the wheel tread sweated on- prototypical style) and was used under Ben’s tender #2.
64F93A46-961A-44A6-A8A0-20219BA84C0E.jpeg
3FB32631-C555-4AF0-AA83-7A1424489686.jpeg

The metallic nine spoke wheel pattern is 7” in diameter - 9” with tread. This wheel was used in the front truck of Ben’s locomotive No. 2. Also could be used for goods cars or passenger service.
741AB6A1-A89F-44CB-B3D3-9C6655B96E1D.jpeg
3A7DA060-A106-40E6-894D-54ED509BAC08.jpeg

The axle box pedestals are thru bolted to the main frame timbers. These were the primary pedestal castings on American railroads at he end of the wood car era, circa 1890-1900, just prior to wide spread development of cast metal frames and bogies.

The pedestal dimension is 8”x10”. Journal box opening: 3”x6”.
86EE767E-5C6B-44F5-A1CB-1617D198819A.jpeg
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Glenn Brooks »

0351 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:12 pm Thanks for the comparison pictures. Big difference.
What are the overall dimensions of the coupler pocket? How many to you need to sell to make a run of these couplers? Any estimate yet per set?
0351, I annotated my earlier post with the coupler pocket dims. The local foundries here in the PNW will do small runs for miniature train castings, so I don’t expect a minimum order problem.

Don’t have any pricing info. I plan on unpacking a few more castings so I can take a representative sample up to them for an estimate, in the next week or so. I’ll post price estimates soon as I hear something.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Glenn Brooks »

20” diameter driver pattern, and classic brake cylinder and linkage parts.
6A22AD2B-3264-4FC1-B961-A565939D264B.jpeg

These brake cylinders could be used on either 3” or 4” scale locomotives.
163F4EB7-C014-4A77-9C16-67EBEE4FB6BF.jpeg
99DC8043-2C05-46D3-86F4-88A5C6749896.jpeg
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Santafescotty60
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:00 pm

Re: 4” scale 4-4-0 patterns available

Post by Santafescotty60 »

Yes Ben used a foundry in Tijuana for some aluminum and cast iron gave them a lot of grief if they tried to cast up junk metal a master builder
Post Reply