Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

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apm
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by apm »

It maybe too late on the safeties but for the bigger locomotives these look pretty realistic and work great. https://www.mcmaster.com/4701K11-4701K15/
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NP317
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by NP317 »

Note that those safety valves are for Air/Inert Gas only, and are not adjustable.
RussN
apm
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by apm »

NP317 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:44 pm Note that those safety valves are for Air/Inert Gas only, and are not adjustable.
RussN
Russ do you know the reason for Air/inert has only ratings is there a real technical reason behind that as many guys use the air rated relief valves without any issues. What part about steam do these things not like? Mine work great on steam and look almost prototypical too.

Not adjustable was no issue since McMaster stocked them both in 125 and 130psi settings.
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Fender
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Fender »

It’s mostly about certification on the steam vs. air classification. For a safety valve to be labelled for use on steam and receive ASME certification requires a whole raft of tests and paperwork, and the market value of these valves can’t justify the costs, since they aren’t used commercially for that purpose.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
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NP317
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by NP317 »

AMP:
What Fender said.
I don't have info beyond that.

I've worked so much with Federal, State and Insurance boiler safety agencies that my brain automatically defaults to known steam accessories.
RussN
apm
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by apm »

Building on what Fender said has any vendor spent the money to supply our hobby with ASME Steam certified relief valves for a hobby boiler? Does anything exist in the 1/4"NPT range?

Russ what do you have on your boiler?
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Also, there are a lot of valves that are rated for air that don't use stainless steel springs, balls, etc... They will use chrome plated or coated springs and hardware inside instead. I remember when Kingston was still making those air valves that a lot of people modified, you would have to make sure and get the ones with the S.S. designation because that meant that it had stainless steel springs and balls inside of it and it would last. I have seen the other ones used before, and it will last 2 or 3 runs before corrosion eats it up and the spring will break, or the ball won't seat, etc... Not sure what type of innards these valves have. The only way to know for sure would be to buy one and open it up.
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NP317
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by NP317 »

apm wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:12 am Building on what Fender said has any vendor spent the money to supply our hobby with ASME Steam certified relief valves for a hobby boiler? Does anything exist in the 1/4"NPT range?

Russ what do you have on your boiler?
Both my locomotives have SuperScale safety valves on their boilers.
Interestingly, when the WA State boiler inspector first tested my locomotives, she saw the SuperScale safetyies and stated:
"Ah, Good. Those safety valves are the best."
The boiler got certified.
RussN
Steam Dome.jpg
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Fender
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Fender »

The ASME certification for safety valves is actually more complicated than air vs. steam. There is a section that covers power boilers, and a different section that covers pressure vessels. So, for example the commercial Kunkle valves sometimes seen on our locos, are ASME certified under Section VIII (pressure vessels - tanks, receivers, etc.) but not under Section I (power boilers). So, even though they are "ASME certified" valves, it isn't kosher to put them on a fired boiler. I don't see how much this really matters, since very few of our boilers are code boilers anyway.
Dan Watson
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Harold_V
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Harold_V »

If I recall correctly thread size in and of itself eliminates small safeties from being code for steam. Nothing under ½" NPT qualifies.

Comments?

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Dick_Morris »

Nothing under ½" NPT qualifies.
It's been a while since I looked it up, but that's what I remember, the smallest ASME code valve is 1/2".

It's also my understanding that the the small Kunkles were certified for boiler use in the past, but they stopped certifying them for fired vessels. The "UV" on the certification tag means unfired vessel.
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Pipescs
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Re: Converting a Baldwin 2-4-2 LYN to a Baldwin 2-4-4

Post by Pipescs »

Mean time back at MSLS this week the Miss Ann performed beautify.

Ended up putting ten miles on it with out a derail. This because of a large amount of work by the club members over the last three months.

One of the things I had lightly mentioned during the early running, was that the engine was continuously popping off the safeties.

This was caused by the fact that the fire box area was far too large for the boiler size. Having experimented with various ideas, I ended up following advice from other Lyn owners in England. This was to add a fire brick block that blanks off the forward area of the fire box. It cuts the grate area from 79 to 49 square inches. The original Lyn boiler is 42 square inches. This block comes out with the grates when they are dropped and is not permanently attached. The brick sets in the fire box on edge against small tabs on the grates and leans back against the front of the fire box.
Its height is just under the stainless arch plates.

As I say we ran it three days with this set up and it seems to have tamed the beast as it is easy to control the fire and pressure around the 110 to 120 range. It only pops off at the end of the long climbs at MSLS. Open fire door or adding water brings it back in pressure nicely.

After two days I was able to start concentrating on my braking and that greatly improved today. Winter project will be to add steam brakes to the driver to work along with the trailing truck manual brake and the Tom Bee Air Brakes on the cars.

No photos to post as we only concentrated on running.
Charlie Pipes
Mid-South Live Steamers


Current Projects:

Scratch Built 3 3/4 scale 0-4-4 Forney
Little Engines American
20 Ton Shay (Castings and Plans Purchased for future)
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