3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

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Bill Shields
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by Bill Shields »

Stay away from ball bearings on the loco and tender.

Lots of dirt and no need for them. Riding car is another story..

WEAKER is not an apt term...smaller boiler does not translate to weaker. It just means that you need to be a bit more careful with water management.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
FKreider
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by FKreider »

The 3.5" boiler will steam just fine, there are many many 3/4" British locomotive designs that utilize the 3.5" copper tube and they all perform great.
-Frank K.
shild
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

Bill Shields wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:18 pm Stay away from ball bearings on the loco and tender.

Lots of dirt and no need for them. Riding car is another story..

WEAKER is not an apt term...smaller boiler does not translate to weaker. It just means that you need to be a bit more careful with water management.
Lots of dirt? But these locos run on a high line away from dirt that gets washed off every time it rains. Did you mean burning ash will burn through the bearings seal?
shild
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

Working on axles at the moment. Just ruined one by cutting a thousandth too much off and now the wheel won't fit. How do you guys like to do axles? You do the relief cuts first right? Then the center drill and the cut to fit them to the wheel then the bearing?
shild
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

Also thinking about putting my axles in the freezer and wheels in the oven just before I put them on. Is this a good method?
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Bill Shields
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by Bill Shields »

No on freezer...unless you are considering heating wheels. Stop and calculate how much the axle will shrink given the temp difference.

No dirt on elevated track?...well...for sure less dirt than a ground level track..

Remember..not all clubs ate elevated and most that I have run on..well I would not want to sit on the track..especially in the yard area where things are cleaned and ash is scattered everywhere.

I have never seen the underside of a loco that is not filthy everywhere.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
shild
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

Did the 4 tender axles and pilot axle. Found a vise that was just barely big enough to press the wheels on. Pilot seems to have come out good, 2 out of the 4 tender axles came out good, but I mushroomed the bearings when I pressed some on. Probably cause I left too much meat on the axle and had to press too hard. Or maybe I went in too far with the center drill and made it too easy to mushroom?
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NP317
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by NP317 »

Looks like you pushed the axles with a center, and that caused the mushrooming. And that the center drill may have been too large for the diameter.
I always press with flat surfaces to prevent that. And never on any bearing surfaces.
Work, and learn:
Use smaller center drills for that diameter axle, and machine a "pressing sleeve" that fits over bearing potion and presses against a larger diameter shoulder of the axle.
And make the press fit lighter, using a LokTite ( or similar) glue to secure that light press fit.
RussN
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

NP317 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:53 am Looks like you pushed the axles with a center, and that caused the mushrooming. And that the center drill may have been too large for the diameter.
I always press with flat surfaces to prevent that. And never on any bearing surfaces.
Work, and learn:
Use smaller center drills for that diameter axle, and machine a "pressing sleeve" that fits over bearing potion and presses against a larger diameter shoulder of the axle.
And make the press fit lighter, using a LokTite ( or similar) glue to secure that light press fit.
RussN
No I used the vise jaws that were on the vise to press them in. Maybe I should have waited until I made one of the bearings and used that to press them in? I used loctite every time. Yes I guess I should have used a smaller center drill. But this one is still appropriate for the pilot and driver axles isn't it?
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Bill Shields
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by Bill Shields »

You used loctite and pressed them on?

I must be missing something.

Loctite us for size to size or slight slide in fits.

Best you take this mess apart and start over. Slowly
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Harold_V
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by Harold_V »

I agree with Bill. If you choose to use LocTite, you are best served to follow the maker's instructions. I light press fit most likely will exclude any applied locking compound, so you'll be at the mercy of the press fit alone, which is likely to fail. Locking compounds work ONLY if they have a place to be, and are applied as directed.

If one's workmanship is up to par, with fits and finishes in keeping with good practice, there's absolutely nothing wrong with press or shrink fits. However, if size is accomplished by filing, or one is unable to create straight and round diameters, press fits may not be in your best interest. In such a case, I'm going to endorse Bill's normal recommendation of using locking compounds, but only if maker's instructions are followed correctly. Failure after full assembly is a lot more trouble than doing it right in the first place.

Want to guild the lily? Grind all exterior diameters and hone internal diameters. By doing so, roundness and straightness are guaranteed, as is size. Such fits go together seamlessly. Please note that honing excludes the use of spring loaded hones. Rigid honing eliminates bore errors.

Yes, I realize that most home shops lack the ability. Just trying to enlighten those who may not understand how such fits are accomplished reliably.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
shild
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Re: 3/4" Raritan 2-4-0 build.

Post by shild »

Harold_V wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:34 pm I agree with Bill. If you choose to use LocTite, you are best served to follow the maker's instructions. I light press fit most likely will exclude any applied locking compound, so you'll be at the mercy of the press fit alone, which is likely to fail. Locking compounds work ONLY if they have a place to be, and are applied as directed.

If one's workmanship is up to par, with fits and finishes in keeping with good practice, there's absolutely nothing wrong with press or shrink fits. However, if size is accomplished by filing, or one is unable to create straight and round diameters, press fits may not be in your best interest. In such a case, I'm going to endorse Bill's normal recommendation of using locking compounds, but only if maker's instructions are followed correctly. Failure after full assembly is a lot more trouble than doing it right in the first place.

Want to guild the lily? Grind all exterior diameters and hone internal diameters. By doing so, roundness and straightness are guaranteed, as is size. Such fits go together seamlessly. Please note that honing excludes the use of spring loaded hones. Rigid honing eliminates bore errors.

Yes, I realize that most home shops lack the ability. Just trying to enlighten those who may not understand how such fits are accomplished reliably.

H
Thanks Harold. I'm still a bit confused. Up until this point I have only used loctite to try to keep screws and bolts from rattling apart. After I did the finishing pass for the place to mount those wheels I held sandpaper against it to smooth it off. You're saying I don't need it too smooth because the loctite needs a place to be? If I'm able to press the wheel on by hand is that the fit I want to use with loctite?
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