Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

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Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

Hey Mike,

Yes, I can post a photo of the diagram. Sorry that I have not done that already, I dropped the ball there. I know what it is like to try and troubleshoot someone's issues without all of the information, and how frustrating that can be. I try hard not to be that guy, so sorry about that.
I honestly forgot that it was in the machine tool holder box until I was messing with it the other day.

This diagram is off of the back cover of the wiring plate from the motor. It was not on the motor when I received the machine, but it was laying in the tool holding tray with the collets. It fits the motor so I am assuming that it is off of the one that is in the machine. Now that may not mean anything, but the motor does have 10 yellow wires coming out of it, so everything seems to be correct for this cover.
Attachments
No matter which way I turn this thing in the Windows 10 photo viewer or editor program it posts upside down. Also, I had to put this under a magnifying glass to take this photo, I hope that it is easy to read.
No matter which way I turn this thing in the Windows 10 photo viewer or editor program it posts upside down. Also, I had to put this under a magnifying glass to take this photo, I hope that it is easy to read.
kl7sg
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:00 pm
Location: Springtown, TX

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by kl7sg »

Hi Jim,

The picture is just fine.
It is reversible and probably multi speed.
I need to do some research to see about the speed.
Have a nice day,

Mike
Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

I have had little to no luck finding any information on this machine or the motor at all. I may be looking in the wrong places, but from my experience there is not a lot out there. Hopefully you have access to more resources than I do, I am sure it would be helpful.

I did draw up a crude map of where the wires currently go as well as how many connectors are on each location, if that would help.

If it can be set up 220v that would be awesome. I have a couple of 220v locations in the shop that I can use, so that would work out well.

I also have a lot of photos of all of the electrical connections, like the switches, the fuse box, and so on. Whatever we need to do to get it to work properly I am on board with.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to look this stuff over, thank you.
kl7sg
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:00 pm
Location: Springtown, TX

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by kl7sg »

Hi Jim,

I am not having much luck either.

This motor can be run on 220 Volts and It would eliminate the power cord wire gauge size as an issue.
This is a capacitor type motor and the Start Capacitor might be bad. It could be that the start current is high due to a bad/old capacitor.
Based on what I have read, it sounds like the fuse is blowing during startup. Also, a fuse should not be getting warm. Sometimes the fuse holders or their connections are dirty and need cleaning. You can clean these types of of connections (copper/brass) using a pink pencil eraser. Do not use sand paper or anything more abrasive. A little bit of resistance in the connections could be causing the fuse to get warm. (I ran into this many years ago with the old screw-in type fuses used in an older home)

You might consider talking to a repair shop and see if they have the capacitor and can identify the wire numbers. If you go that route it may be worth replacing the bearings and fix any other problems if they will do it for a reasonable amount of money.

Small motors like this might not be worth repairing at a shop. If that is the case, and it looks like a replacement is the way to go, I would look at something in three phase. This would require you to get a VFD. You can set the VFD to output 60Hz and still use the built in transmission/belt drive. But, a VFD can not normally be switched using the BB4 switching. In my experience, VFD's do not like having mechanical switching in the output connections while energized.

But, cost is always an issue and some people want to keep these old machines original. I do think think that changing the capacitor is a reasonable approach if you want to do it yourself. You can locate the capacitor outside of the motor if you need more room for the new capacitor.
Also, I can make a drawing to show you how to hook it up for forward/reverse operation.

So far, I can't confirm that this motor can be run at two speeds. If I had it here, I could open it up and look.
Also, if you want to send me the switches, I can clean them and make drawings that would cover them also.

Anyway, I am happy to help you what ever path you choose.
Have a nice day,

Mike
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Bill Shields
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Bill Shields »

If it were me i would purchase a new reversable capacitor start 110 v motor snd just rewire everything following the diagrams that will come with the motor.

These motors typically have two capacitors on them and are nade to be easily driven by simple switch wiring.

You will be able to use your existing drum switch.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

Thank you for the response Bill Shields, I am considering all of my options at this point, and a new motor would be a good way to go.
Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

Hi Mike,

I have been looking at 3 phase motors and a VFD, and honestly they are really pricey. If money were no option I would run that route pretty quickly, but I am not in a position to drop a grand plus some on it at this point. Between what is going on in the country, and my current fixed income, I need to be a little careful. Once things blow over socially and we are back up and running full steam that might just change.

I will admit that there is a side of me that prefers to have it original as well, but I am told that it does not effect the value of the machine and I would be better off using more modern stuff in it anyway. I am still a bit nostalgic though, call it a weakness. LOL

As for the motor, if I took the thing apart and took a TON of photos do you think you might be able to figure it out? As far as whether or not it could be run in reverse?

I do intend to look around and see if I can find a motor service place out here tomorrow. If I locate one I will run it by and have them take a look and quote a price. We are new to Alabama having moved down here a year and a half ago, so I need a reason to travel around and find these places as it is.

I have no problem taking it apart and replacing the capacitor. In fact that was on my to do list. I will get that quoted as well.

Thanks for the info on cleaning up the connections for the fuses. I will knock that out soon.

I will PM you about the switches. That sounds like it might be a good idea to be honest with you.

Talk to you later,
Jim
kl7sg
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:00 pm
Location: Springtown, TX

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by kl7sg »

Hi Jim,

For me, money is always an issue. So I understand completely and will help you in anyway that I can.
See what the repair shop has to say and then let me know.

This motor can be run in reverse, all we need to do is figure out which wire is what number.
May be we can do it with pictures or an Ohm meter.
Have a nice day,

Mike
Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

Hi Mike,

Sorry, I meant figuring out whether or not it would run at two speeds through photos. I misspoke there when I typed in "if it can run in reverse".

You had already mentioned that reverse was possible. I meant to ask about the two speeds. My bad.
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NP317
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Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by NP317 »

And perhaps just replace the entire power cord.
Age is not kind to such items.
RussN
Jim Clark
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 am

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark »

I will absolutely do that. We are going to try and convert it back over to 220V, so I will most certainly get another power cord for it.

Thank you.
kl7sg
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:00 pm
Location: Springtown, TX

Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by kl7sg »

Hi Jim,

It is possible that it can be run at multiple speeds.
If a repair shop can look at the motor, it would be best. We would have a better understanding of the motor.
It might be difficult to understand how the motor is wound from just pictures.
Have a nice day,

Mike
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