Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

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Downwindtracker2
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:34 pm
Location: B.C.

Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

My toy (6-7") shaper is getting back together. It's a pre'70 at least by the 2x4 size on the stand, shop built welded steel. square ways on the ram. Gib horizontal , shims vertically on the ram. The ram is off now, and I'll be reshimming tomorrow. What kind of accuracy would be expected of a bench top home shaper? thx
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
Bill C
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Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Bill C »

Accuracy has a lot to do with how rigid the machine is, how solidly the work is held and how tight or 'free of slop' the moving parts are. A shaper has the clapper box and the tool bit that need your attention as well.

You don't want more ram stroke than you need to cut the work. You also need to limit the tool overhang and make sure the tool bit is ground properly for the type of cut you are taking. The tool holder needs to be set at the right angle for the direction of cut with each stroke.

There are some great books and YouTube videos you can view to help. When I owned my shaper, I got a lot of guidance from the New England Model Engineering Society. Here's a link to a chapter I contributed when I built a vise.

http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/s ... mn_57.html

Hope some of this helps. I'd like to see photos of your machine.

Regards,

Bill C.
Downwindtracker2
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Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

Thanks ,Bill. I have a Chinese 4" boat anchor masquerading as a milling machine vise, any ideas for modifying would be helpful.

After 32 measurements, done a least three times each, it has been awhile since I've used a mike that much, using a calculator my shim packs vary from .014 to .000. The ram keepers were made with a shaper out of hot rolled, without machining the top flat. They have 8 5/16" hold down bolts. Now to make some tiny 5/8" x 1 1/2" shims.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
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ken572
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Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by ken572 »

Bill C wrote:Accuracy has a lot to do with how rigid the machine is, how solidly the work is held and how tight or 'free of slop' the moving parts are. A shaper has the clapper box and the tool bit that need your attention as well.

You don't want more ram stroke than you need to cut the work. You also need to limit the tool overhang and make sure the tool bit is ground properly for the type of cut you are taking. The tool holder needs to be set at the right angle for the direction of cut with each stroke.

There are some great books and YouTube videos you can view to help. When I owned my shaper, I got a lot of guidance from the New England Model Engineering Society. Here's a link to a chapter I contributed when I built a vise.

http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/s ... mn_57.html

Hope some of this helps. I'd like to see photos of your machine.

Regards,

Bill C.
Hello :!: Bill :D

Thanks for sharing your story, and your pictures
of your Great looking shaper, and the fine looking
vice you built. VERY COOL 8)

Ken. :)
One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.
Bill C
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Bill C »

Ken - glad you liked the article. I appreciate how you always post lots of great resource links for folks. That is very kind of you. I did see you posted about Kay Fisher's Shaper Columns a short while ago. I sold my Southbend shaper a few years ago and I think it has another new owner now! I'm occupied building (very slowly) an Allen Mogul now.

Downwind - once you get your machine working as you like, I'd suggest grinding up the shearing bit described here:

http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/s ... mn_43.html

The bit can produce a near-mirror finish... Shapers are fun and very interesting to use. I hope you enjoy your project.

Bill C.
Downwindtracker2
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Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

Thanks again Bill, I have a bit of history with shapers. Early in my millwrighting career, I worked for a short time in a machine shop, taking apart, putting together sort of thing. One time the boss came to me and told be to put the pallet of parts together. When I finished, it was a working shaper, the first shaper I had ever seen. He wanted it for internal keyseats.

Just putting this little shaper together, you realize how much work went into making one. Because this one is shop made. I'm only finishing off what someone else built. Compared to an Allen Mogul, it is piece of cake.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
pete
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Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by pete »

You asked about accuracy? Well even the small shapers like the South Bends and most of the others like Atlas etc have a outboard table support that slides back and forth with the shapers table sideways movement. If your's doesn't have something like that yet? You better figure out a way to add one. They all need that extra help.

In excellent condition, proper work holding, really good tool shape for the material and sharpening, I've read in some of the old machinist books that they could get well under a vertical mills accuracy, and towards the accuracy's of surface grinding. When your machine is all assembled you want to take a very light clean up cut on the tables surface. That makes it parallel to the rams stroke, so in theroy if you don't have a lot of machine wear, your cuts should or could be zero/zero for any inaccuracy's with a .001" indicator. We all know things aren't quite that easy in the real world though.

Pete
Downwindtracker2
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Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

After spending a couple of weeks bothering ********** elk, my skill level wouldn't rate as hunting, I'm back looking at the shaper. The boat anchor, err Chinese 4" milling vice, after taking some serious cuts on the Delta Toolmaker,it is now within .001.The mill/drill made some special Tnuts for it. I lose some height, but it does rotate. BTW, the vice was made poorly with a shaper.( And I asked about shaper accuracy !) There is provision for a skate support, so that's the next fix,then the feed. The cross feed screw is 1/2" N.C., the down feed is 3/8"N.C. and no dials. To add dials , simpler math will work easier. A fine 1/2 drive ratchet will be an improvement over the coarse toothed ratcheting box end wrench the last owner used. Finer cuts should get a better finish.

I gather a shaper can produce a good finish on most anything. With more research,the old manuals talk about splitting the line on a scale, so I'm guessing that's about the accuracy level. Makes sense in a way, these machines, shapers, are from the turn of the last century. This little dear does have some wear, steel on steel ,likely without much oil.

Thanks ,Pete
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
pete
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: Home Shop Shaper Accuracy ?

Post by pete »

Your welcome DWT. But one more tip I certainly didn't invent. I think I got it from one of T.D. Walshaws books. "It's impossible to get a finer surface finish than whats on the cutting tools cutting faces". So if you want the best accuracy you'll need to at least hone your cutting tools edges with a fine stone or diamond hone. And there's a few Youtube video's that show some shaper specific cutting tools if your willing to search for them. Sorry I don't have any links since my last computer crash. :-(

Pete
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