South Bend heavy 10

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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pete
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by pete »

???? While I could be wrong, I've never seen any properly sized and fitting Male MT extend that far out while it's fully seated. To me that sure looks like it's one size up than what the female taper no. is.
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Bill Shields
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Bill Shields »

Actually it is fitting as expected.

The SB spindle is a MT taper...and somewhere between a 4 and 5 MT

If you get a 4MT it drops in too far and is unusable.

If you get a 5 MT you have something that fits but is too long.

Hence my comment "you are not going to use it like that"

Cut it off and turn a new tip on it.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Howard Gorin
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Howard Gorin »

South Bend made a sleeve that fit the spindle taper and had an internal #2 Morse taper that would allow you to use a conventional #2 center, or any drill, reamer, etc that had a morse #2 taper.
I think they also made a sleeve that had a Morse #3 taper.
That sleeve fit most South Bend lathes from a 10 L to a 16" swing lathe.
Another tapered sleeve would allow you to use 5C collets.
pete
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by pete »

Apparently there's a fair number of lathes with spindle bore sizes in the MT 4-5 range and Harrison from the UK being only one of them that used on some of there lathe models what's loosely described as an intermediate 1/2 taper that falls between the two sizes. Most or maybe all I think I've seen mentioned were called a MT 4 1/2. And I'm unsure if that was something done with other sizes of Morse Tapers. Since I've no idea if that's what South Bend did and that's what this lathe has, it's only a possibility. For at least that 4 1/2 size and even though it was used by more than a few manufacturers, it is supposed to be hardly recognized as a real industry standard. I know someone that bought a Harrison in the UK that ran across this exact issue. Standard non 1/2 sized MT tooling is easy and fairly cheap to find. From the factory it's my understanding these lathes were provided with a female-female short adapter to drop it down from that 1/2 or between size to then use standard MT tooling. Going by what he had to say, those female-female adapters are now quite rare and costly to find even used. And with the searches he ran at the time, he couldn't find any commercially available new versions. Just to be 100% sure and I think if it were me, I'd run a simple check and blacken the shank of that new MT with a Sharpie and give it a 1/2 twist by hand as it starts to seat in the spindle taper. Then check for where and how much of that Sharpie mark gets removed. At least then you'd know for sure both ends of the taper do or don't match what the spindle has. Exactly what the reasoning was behind using this almost non standard taper is something I've so far not seen mentioned.
Randall Va
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Randall Va »

Thanks Bill. I called Sharrs looking for a 5c collet holder and he said it’s not offered any place you know of have them?
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Bill Shields
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Bill Shields »

eBay?
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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Bill Shields
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Bill Shields »

Miller machine and fabricating
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
SteveM
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by SteveM »

Do you have the 5C collet adapter?

You can get a 5C dead center.

Steve
Randall Va
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by Randall Va »

Steve I thought I had found a 5c but it doesn't fit, I would like to find one
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LIALLEGHENY
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by LIALLEGHENY »

Southbend heavy 10 lathes had a proprietary spindle taper. Like Bill says, try Miller Machine & Fabricating, interesting that Miller lists the adaptors as " large taper". Yes there is a Morse 4.5 taper, but it was not commonly used. My Logan 11" uses a spindle adaptor , it is a 2 degree taper. Seems that there really was no standard for spindle tapers, only for tailstocks.

Nyle
SteveM
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Re: South Bend heavy 10

Post by SteveM »

You could make a center to fit the taper by cutting a piece of stock between centers using the compound to do the taper.

You would set the compound using an indicator with a long tip of one of those lever gizmos to adjust the compound until the needle shows no movement.

You want to do it between centers so you can take it out for test fitting. You can mark it with sharpie or dykem (not spotting paste), insert it, spin it, remove and see if you get a consistent pattern of removal. If while testing, it jams in the taper and doesn't wobble, well, you are there.

Once you have the taper cut, cut off the tail end, then cut off the head end leaving enough stock to turn the center on it, with extra material for re-turning it as needed.

Then set the compound to cut the taper in place and cut the center.

As the center is spinning with the work, it doesn't need to be hardened.

Steve
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