Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

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bulgie
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Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

I want to lighten my "new" '82 Enco 10x24 (Taiwan) enough to carry it downstairs. This is my first time disassembling any lathe.

I was hoping, after removing the pillow block (is that the word) that holds the left end of the lead screw and feed rod, that I could just slide the whole carriage off the left. But it stops because the keyway in the feed rod doesn't go all the way out the end (see attachment). I assume this is normal?

Does this mean I have to remove the feed rod first? I haven't looked at how it's attached in the gearbox, any gotchas there? And once that's done will the feed rod slide out from the carriage? That is, does the keyway go all the way out the right end of the rod?

The machine is decently clean, so I am hoping to avoid a total rebuild. Is it crazy to slide the entire carriage off without first disassembling it, like taking the apron off?

Grateful for any comments even if it's "you're an idiot".

Cheers
Mark
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Enco feed rod keyway.jpg
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rmac
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by rmac »

Hi Mark, and welcome to the forum. I have a Taiwanese lathe of about the same vintage that's probably very similar to yours. So some of this may actually help!
bulgie wrote: I was hoping, after removing the pillow block (is that the word) that holds the left end of the lead screw and feed rod, that I could just slide the whole carriage off the left.
You'll probably have better luck sliding the carriage off the right. :)
bulgie wrote: But it stops because the keyway in the feed rod doesn't go all the way out the end (see attachment). I assume this is normal?
It's not abnormal, anyway. Mine is the same. See the picture.
bulgie wrote: Does this mean I have to remove the feed rod first?
I think so.
bulgie wrote: I haven't looked at how it's attached in the gearbox, any gotchas there?
On mine, the feed rod slides into a collar on a shaft that extends from the gearbox, and it's held in place with a tapered pin. If yours is the same, you should be able to drive that pin out to disconnect the feed rod. Be sure you're tapping on the correct end of the pin. You don't want to get that wrong and accidentally make it tighter.
bulgie wrote: And once that's done will the feed rod slide out from the carriage? That is, does the keyway go all the way out the right end of the rod?
That would be the left end of the rod, but yes, if your lathe is like mine.
bulgie wrote: Is it crazy to slide the entire carriage off without first disassembling it, like taking the apron off?
I did all this myself when I first got my lathe because it was NOT decently clean. I don't remember if I removed the apron first or not, but I probably did. All those parts are very heavy and the last thing you want is to get the carriage halfway off and then discover that you can't handle it.

Along those same lines, I'm not sure what you mean by "carrying the lathe downstairs", but even with the carriage and tailstock removed, you're still dealing with a big chunk of metal. You probably don't want to remove the headstock because you might mess up its alignment with the bed. But the motor should come off without issue, along with various covers and belt guards and such. Every little bit helps.

A last hint is to take a million pictures as you disassemble things. You'll be glad you did.

-- Russell Mac

right_end.jpg
left_end.jpg
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

Russell,

Oh my, I really do have a problem with Right and Left, don't I?

Yes, "carrying" in my case means winching it down on a good strong wheeled dolly, with a plywood ramp covering the stairs. I think with the carriage and gearbox off it'll still be 300-400 lb. Motor, tailstock, covers etc are already off. Maybe I could winch it down as-is, but I'll feel more confident the lighter I can get it. I definitely am not touching the headstock though — who knows what voodoo they originally used to get it dialed in parallel to the ways. Maybe I'll take the spindle and back gears out though, if only so I can inspect the bearings, and clean it properly.

You convinced me, I should take the apron and cross slide off before trying to manhandle the saddle. It's only hours of work <sigh>. Maybe even kinda fun, to do it once anyway.

Thanks a million, or a few hundred thousand at least. I may start disassembling tonight. I won't be able to sleep until I make some progress.

-Mark
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

rmac wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:56 am On mine, the feed rod slides into a collar on a shaft that extends from the gearbox, and it's held in place with a tapered pin. If yours is the same, you should be able to drive that pin out to disconnect the feed rod.
Exactly right, thanks again for the tips. Carriage came off easily, didn't need to remove the apron or anything else.

Then I took off the gearbox, with the lead screw still attached. I could leave the leadscrew attached until re-assembly, but it'll be easier to clean everything without that big stick sticking out. I think I know what to do, but can I ask you to confirm this is right?

(See attachment) I got the two jam-nuts off, but then I need to remove the gear that is covering the key that's keeping the shaft from exiting. The other gear, that's preventing that keyed gear from shifting over (top red arrow), is on the other shaft, the one that's held in with snap-rings. I will have to get me some snap-ring pliers to move forward. (Yes any good mechanic will have those. I never claimed to be a good mechanic!)

Please correct me if any of that is wrong, and add any other wisdom you care to impart.

I am pleased with how little wear there is on the gears, no damage that I can detect. I think it's a low-mileage lathe and/or the operator was careful, didn't crash it. I can now go to sleep and dream happy dreams of making chips.

-Mark
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gearbox.jpg
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rmac
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by rmac »

bulgie wrote: I got the two jam-nuts off, but then I need to remove the gear that is covering the key that's keeping the shaft from exiting. The other gear, that's preventing that keyed gear from shifting over (top red arrow), is on the other shaft, the one that's held in with snap-rings. I will have to get me some snap-ring pliers to move forward. (Yes any good mechanic will have those. I never claimed to be a good mechanic!)

Please correct me if any of that is wrong, and add any other wisdom you care to impart.
I doubt if you need to mess around inside the gearbox to remove the lead screw. Look to see if the lead screw isn't attached to its shaft almost like the feed rod was. That's the way it is on mine, except with a setscrew instead of the tapered pin to secure the connection.

-- Russell Mac

leadscrew.jpg
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Steggy
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by Steggy »

bulgie wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:00 amOh my, I really do have a problem with Right and Left, don't I?

That does seem to be a common problem in Seattle. :shock: :D :lol:

Maybe I could winch it down as-is, but I'll feel more confident the lighter I can get it.

For what it's worth, when I extracted my JET 12 × 36 lathe from the previous owner's basement I left the carriage in place, but removed the tool post, compound and cross-slide. I also removed the tail stock, power transmission system, motor, etc., to further reduce the total weight as much as I could. Even with all that stuff remove it was still quite the load to manhandle.

Even if you were to strip the machine to the bare bed you'd still have a heavy chuck of iron to manhandle. You are wise to not disturb the head stock. My advice is if at all possible, leave the carriage on the machine and use it to counterbalance the weight of the head stock while you have it suspended from a cherry picker or whatever else you use to lift it.
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tornitore45
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by tornitore45 »

The fun is in reassembling. To retighten the pillow block. Run the carriage all the way to the right. Close the 1/2 nut. This sets the lead screw at the right height. Now you can slip in the pillow block end tighten the screws as it sits at the correct height, held by the 1/2 nut close by.
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

rmac wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:47 am I doubt if you need to mess around inside the gearbox to remove the lead screw. Look to see if the lead screw isn't attached to its shaft almost like the feed rod was. That's the way it is on mine, except with a setscrew instead of the tapered pin to secure the connection.
You're probably right but I don't know yet. Last night I took the setscrew out and tugged on the black collar that the screw is in. It needed a bit of heat-gun to come off; either a light press fit or maybe gummed up like with dried coolant. But it slid right off and then it wasn't obvious what to do next so I went to bed. Today I was looking at my documentation, which is poor and hard to read but the parts list calls out a taper pin in about that location, so I'll look again. Dunno why they'd have a taper pin and a collar with a setscrew (belt and suspenders?)

I'll need snap ring pliers anyway though. :)

BTW your photos match my machine so exactly, other than the paint color, I think they must be rebadged siblings.

-Mark
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by Steggy »

bulgie wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:30 pmDunno why they'd have a taper pin and a collar with a setscrew (belt and suspenders?)

Perhaps the tapered pin was used to guarantee that there is no backlash between the lead screw and the gearbox's output shaft.
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

BigDumbDinosaur wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:18 am My advice is if at all possible, leave the carriage on the machine and use it to counterbalance the weight of the head stock while you have it suspended from a cherry picker or whatever else you use to lift it.
My plan is, if it won't lift level, even with the strap all the way towards the head end, then I can slide the carriage back on and lock it down temporarily while it's on the cherry picker, then take it back off for the trip down the stairs. Then carriage back on to hoist it to its bench.

When I lifted it off the trailer to its current temporary home, the straps were shifted slightly towards the tail end (not right next to the headstock), with the carriage all the way right, and the tailstock off. But I've removed a lot of weight from the head end since then, and I'm going to remove more, so it may not need the carriage for balance. I'll keep ya posted! (I know you're all on pins and needles waiting for news... yeah right.)

Thanks
-Mark
Last edited by bulgie on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

BigDumbDinosaur wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:38 pm
bulgie wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:30 pmDunno why they'd have a taper pin and a collar with a setscrew (belt and suspenders?)

Perhaps the tapered pin was used to guarantee that there is no backlash between the lead screw and the gearbox's output shaft.
Yeah I can see the need for a taper pin. What I'm confused about is the collar with the setscrew, what does it do? That tiny setscrew can't take much torque, so it's looking more like a cover, to keep swarf out of the thrust bearing. It seems too thick and heavy to be just a bearing shield though, those are usually real light duty.

But I probably don't need to understand its function as long as I get it reassembled correctly. Famous last words?

-Mark
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bulgie
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Re: Lathe disassembly question, take carriage off?

Post by bulgie »

tornitore45 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:57 am The fun is in reassembling. To retighten the pillow block. Run the carriage all the way to the right. Close the 1/2 nut. This sets the lead screw at the right height. Now you can slip in the pillow block end tighten the screws as it sits at the correct height, held by the 1/2 nut close by.
Thanks, I may do that. What I've been doing is attaching the pillow block with the carriage as far away as possible, so I have some flex in the leadscrew and feed bar, to pull them away from the bed enough to clear the roll pins that set the location of the pillow block. I like leaving the roll pins set where they are in the pillow block. The combined weight of the leadscrew, feed bar and pillow block on this little machine is so slight, I can easily lift them with one hand while seating the roll pins and inserting the screws. I've been assuming this way is plenty good enough, and the roll pins assure the position is correct when done. Am I asking for trouble that way?

-Mark
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