Interference fit

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NP317
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Re: Interference fit

Post by NP317 »

I practice press fits like Livaboard:
Machined to specification and cold pressed.
And I often use Loctite products to lube the fit, which has saved several projects. Especially when working with leaded steel axles.
They can gall.

The one time I heated materials was when heat-shrinking steel tires on 6" diameter cast iron wheel centers.
I had use of a proper oven to heat the tires slightly orange in color, and the process was still a RUSH!
I barely got the tires on in time and still had to partially hammer one into final position against the machined ledge. Whew!
RussN
Drivers Sept08-#1.jpg
Drivers Sept08-#2.jpg
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ChipsAhoy
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Re: Interference fit

Post by ChipsAhoy »

Russ
That would be interesting to watch... more so to help.
I am curious, do you remember the interference you used with those drivers & tires?
A few years back I helped.... mostly watched... some fellows put a starter ring gear on a fly wheel. There was some pucker factor present there also.
Scotty
Rich_Carlstedt
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Re: Interference fit

Post by Rich_Carlstedt »

ChipsAhoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:48 am I think we have pretty much come up with a good interference fit at a one thousand per inch of shaft diameter.
Now....
If I can freeze my axles, and adequately heat my wheels & hubs... what would then be a PREFERRED interference? By doing this I have reduced the mechanical resistance to mating the parts. So am I safe to assume that tighter is a better quality fit?
In other words....
Is the one thousandth chosen as a happy medium to enable the mechanical process of pressing on, or is it the best fit for the final product in the long run?
I ask these questions not just to stir discussion, but we are looking around the corner here at assembling some larger diameter wheels on some larger diameter axles. And the more information we can gleen the better decision we can make.
Scotty
Well, one thing you can do is make a search on this board as there has been many postings on shrink fits

I have done thousands of shrink and press fits at work and you need to know this magic number for steel/iron ( 5 ball63)
To see the growth of the PART per degree F, you multiply 5 ball 63 by the diameter.
example, for a 1 inch shaft you get .0000063 x 1.00 = .0000063"
The easy way now, is to relate it to 100 degree increments, so multiply that by 100.
You get .00063. that is the change in size for a 1" part for every 100 degrees DIFFERENTIAL
All dimensional changes are relative to ambient temperature.
So if you cool the male to -38 F, it shrinks .00063"
If the female is heated to 168, it grows the same amount and they would be close to size to size for a .001 interference fit. BUT !

Shrink fits change temperature VERY fast, so going over the 168 to about 400 will only give you .001 clearance at time of fit.. too close, unless your guide method is perfect.
I would opt for a hotter temp like 600. the steel will start to turn dark purple to light blue then move fast, and make sure you have some stop of some sort to stop at the right location. marking the parts and holding to the mark is hard when under a rush
have a physical stop if possible when shaft penetration depth is important. Also the entire wheel needs to be heated evenly

Your .001" interference fit per inch is a good number .
When you mix metals for interference fits ( other than steel and cast iron ) , all numbers and conditions change , so Stainless,bronze,aluminum are a whole lot different and approaches to those fits are another animal

Lastly, size for size, a shrink fit has twice the holding power of a press fit for the same interference number---assuming the fits have not been fitted previously

Rich
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NP317
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Re: Interference fit

Post by NP317 »

ChipsAhoy wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:53 am Russ
That would be interesting to watch... more so to help.
I am curious, do you remember the interference you used with those drivers & tires?
A few years back I helped.... mostly watched... some fellows put a starter ring gear on a fly wheel. There was some pucker factor present there also.
Scotty
Scotty:
Referring to the notes on my drawings, I aimed for that "magic" interference fit of 0.001"/inch of diameter, or 0.006 interference fit for those drivers.
I kept the cast iron drivers at room temperature, for simplicity, and heated the tires in the Shop oven.
A tense operation for my nerves, but it worked.
RussN
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liveaboard
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Re: Interference fit

Post by liveaboard »

I find this online calculator extremely useful;

https://amesweb.info/press-fit/interfer ... lator.aspx
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ChipsAhoy
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Re: Interference fit

Post by ChipsAhoy »

A lot to digest...
I can see the advantage on the larger dia's.
Deserves some contemplation.
Thanks for all the input!!!
Scotty
Lew Hartswick
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Re: Interference fit

Post by Lew Hartswick »

Bill Shields wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:41 pm I have seen cases where heating a large disc with a center hole actually makes the hole smaller.
Not sure I believe that. The professor in Physics class pretty well PROVED the hole gets larger EXACTLY as though it were the same as the material surrounding it. Unless Physics has changed in the last 50 some years. :-)
..lew...
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tornitore45
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Re: Interference fit

Post by tornitore45 »

Not sure I believe that. The professor in Physics class pretty well PROVED the hole gets larger EXACTLY as though it were the same as the material surrounding it. Unless Physics has changed in the last 50 some years. :-)
..lew...
Is it possible that you do not understand how the physic applies to the specific phenomenon?
The physic is OK, has not changed but the experiment must be understood completely.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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Bill Shields
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Re: Interference fit

Post by Bill Shields »

Your professor in physics class never heated a duplex stainless pump impeller 36” in diameter with a 10" shaft bore using a half a dozen hand held oxy torches.

Get the heating wrong (not uniform) and the bore shrinks...what makes it worse is when you are trying to fet the impeller OFF the shaft.

Been there, done that...fought the result a couple of dozen times some 40 years ago.

The pump manufacturer (Weir) specifically warned us about the problem.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
atunguyd
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Re: Interference fit

Post by atunguyd »

Bill Shields wrote:Your professor in physics class never heated a duplex stainless pump impeller 36” in diameter with a 10" shaft bore using a half a dozen hand held oxy torches.

Get the heating wrong (not uniform) and the bore shrinks...what makes it worse is when you are trying to fet the impeller OFF the shaft.

Been there, done that...fought the result a couple of dozen times some 40 years ago.

The pump manufacturer (Weir) specifically warned us about the problem.
And there in lies your problem. Everyone knows you don't remove an impeller off such a large shaft with a torch.

The correct method is to put a young apprentice in charge of the impeller with instructions to make sure that it stays on its shaft.

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Harold_V
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Re: Interference fit

Post by Harold_V »

Lew Hartswick wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:48 pm
Bill Shields wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:41 pm I have seen cases where heating a large disc with a center hole actually makes the hole smaller.
Not sure I believe that. The professor in Physics class pretty well PROVED the hole gets larger EXACTLY as though it were the same as the material surrounding it. Unless Physics has changed in the last 50 some years. :-)
..lew...
I'm inclined to agree with lew---although how the hole ends up after heating may or may not support that view. Heating steel results in changes. I can see how the hole might be smaller after cooling than it was before heating, but not by much.

Some alloys are known to shrink when heated. 17-4 PH, for example, is known to shrink about .0006"/inch when heat treated. Beyond that, skilled people straighten shafts by heating specific spots and cooling rapidly. That supports the idea that it might not return to the specific size before heating, but I have a hard time imagining a bore shrinking while it's hot. As lew said, the heated piece should expand much the same as if it there wasn't a hole.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Bill Shields
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Re: Interference fit

Post by Bill Shields »

It is amazing what everyone knows and what is necessary in the real world. I would absolutely agree that if you had an oven into which the impeller would fit.

Another problem we had was that an improperly heated impeller would occasionally end up thth a center bore no longer truly found after room temps returned

Willing to bet that I will receive heaps of criticism regarding straightening is said duplex stainles steel shaft.

Method required working on it in a straightening press until apparently straight...
.then hanging it from an eye in one and beating it severely with sledge hangers to get it to ring.

After the ringing, shafts were generally crooked and required more straightening

Worst part of job ..holding the blocks of wood to protect the shaft.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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