Hand files - how to evaluate?

[Andy R]

I was filing some bronze castings and decided that the files that I was using deserved to be promoted to the "steel only" group, so bought a new mill bastard file. The package and the file had the label of a well-known file maker. After attaching a handle (of course!) I was disappointed in the subsequent cuts with that file. It certainly cut better than the old files that I had been using, but not appreciably better, or at least what I was expecting.

It got me thinking that (a) maybe the old files were not that worn, and in my old age I don't have the ability to file as well as I used to, or (b) the new file isn't very good. Maybe I was influenced by a recent discussion with a good friend who told me that his experience with that formerly good quality file make was similar.

So the question: Is there an established means of evaluating a file other than "by feel"? There was nothing on the package indicating compliance with any standard.

[tornitore45]

Nicolson are now made in China, does that answer your question?
There is no industrial requirement for files anymore. Only hobbyist, artisans like jeweler, hacker and the occasional service guy may have one in the toolbox from 1956.
Therefore, the demand for quality file is nil and the industry adapted.

[Harold_V]

If you have files that are not badly abused but don't perform well, you might consider giving them a prolonged soak in vinegar. It slowly dissolves the surface, resulting sharpening the file. I've done this on a couple occasions with reasonable results, mostly based on how badly the files were damaged prior to the soak, which might be as long as three days. With the tang sticking out, it's easy enough to remove them from the solution to determine the progress being made.

To limit the amount of vinegar used, I use a piece of PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end. Mine is made of 1½" pipe if memory serves. I grip it in my bench vise to keep it upright. A base or some type of holding fixture could be easily fashioned if desired.

H

[Bill Shields]

Do not forget to toss in a dash of salt.

[RSG]

You know what helps my files cut better, chalk! I have a chalk block on the bench and stroke the file over it after cleaning it. What a difference.

[Harold_V]

Do not forget to toss in a dash of salt.

I've used the salt/vinegar solution to derust and can attest that it works. I didn't think about adding it for files, though. Thanks, Bill.

H

[Bill Shields]

Also dissolves broken taps

[Andy R]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your comments. I will try cleaning/refurbishing as described, and get a piece of chalk and use it as suggested.

In the quest for finding out how to evaluate hand files prior to purchase i have found one vendor who lists files as "Rough", "Moderate", and "Fine".
That is very subjective. And it is imprecise, because it is not stated whether they are describing the file or the finish one would expect when using the file. And on what material? I have only found "Suitable for iron and steel" ... nothing about suitability of the files for other materials. Based upon my experience, files intended for iron and steel should cut brass, bronze, and aluminum and still be suitable for use on steel after a bit of wear, but again, it is all subjective.

I found another vendor who showed a few file's hardness. That would help if I knew the hardness of the material to be cut, but says nothing about the file's ability to cut that material. Again, it is all subjective.

I found a vendor who sells both "Swiss Pattern" and "German Pattern" files but those only define dimensions and the spacing between the teeth and nothing about the file's ability to cut.

Still searching for an answer. Maybe there is none.

[Harold_V]

Based upon my experience, files intended for iron and steel should cut brass, bronze, and aluminum and still be suitable for use on steel after a bit of wear, but again, it is all subjective.

It is well known that once a band saw blade sees service in cutting ferrous metals, it is poorly suited to being used on copper alloys. I suspect that the same would be true of files. The keen edge that allows a blade to cut freely is lost on steel, so the teeth will start floating due to the good bearing qualities of the copper alloys.

Just sayin'

H

[SteveM]

I have no experience with these guys, but others have made favorable comments.

They sharpen files using steam-driven liquid abrasives:
https://boggstool.com/file-%26-rasp-services

Considering most files are in the $2-$4 range, and the difficulty getting good files these days, it might be worth a shot.

Steve

[Andy R]

SteveM,

That is way cool. Boggs Tool is only 20 miles from my home. I may drive there with some files.

Continuing the quest to determine a qualitative way to evaluate hand files, I found a December, 2002 GSA standard A-A-2321A COMMERCIAL ITEM DESCRIPTION
FILE, HAND (AMERICAN PATTERN), TAPER. It describes dimensions and the number of teeth, but only requires the material to be carbon steel.

Regarding hardness it states: "Teeth. Shall be uniformly cut or etched and of uniform height throughout the fully cut portion.
Cutting surfaces shall be hardened to a uniform hardness. The distance between the heel and point of the file, excluding the tang, shall be hardened to not greater than 68 nor less than 64 on the Rockwell C scale when tested per ASTM E 18. The file shall be free from decarburization and brittleness."
It also states: "The teeth of the file shall be well-defined, sharp, and uniform in height and form."

There is an even older (1986) GSA standard A-A-2453 describing Swiss Pattern hand files which is even less descriptive.

But there is nothing included in either of those to define fitness for use ... nothing about what it will cut, if anything.

It appears that the only good means of evaluating a file is "by feel".

[Rich_Carlstedt]

I confess, I am a File-a-holic
have loved files all my life and have a collection for almost any application.
First Bronze and Brass are bearing materials and files tend to skid across the surface ...so for maximum effect,
Mark your new / sharp files "for Bronze only" , then downgrade it to " Steel" use when you get a new file and then from there go to" Aluminum"
I see that you do that Andy, but I am not sure what you mean by "feel" so let me give you my approach
Cutting bronze requires firm pressure, no sliding it and expecting a roll off of chips and you want the sharpest files only
I do this by feeling the sharpness of the teeth, but that is rough the smaller/finer the cut.
So to compare , I have a small brass sheet ( .032) that is the size of a business card, and I lay two files flat on the bench
I drag the card edge across the files one time (like swiping a CC ) and compare the two strokes using the same pressure to see if a file is dull
That's my method. The brass will last a long time at the rate i use it
I don't use a steel file card, but have a bronze one and I make my own with Maple hardwood.
I have NOT used Vinegar, but have used Sulfuric Acid and salt and then tossed the file out in to the backyard.
With my stash, I tend to toss old files.

Rich

Oh, you're right, the old files were better IMHO then new foreign stuff- saw that coming 30 years ago
when I bought file inventories at machine shop auctions

Here are a couple of pics of my stash