Alternative Lubricants for Watch Movements

[ctwo]

The guy on the wristwatch revival channel used a lube called Moebius 9010.

Found it on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Moebius-Syntheti ... 003JIIN9U/

$39.99 for 2 ml.

Can't imagine how small the bottle is.

The gallon price?

$75,689

BTW, did you see the tapered reamer (broach) that he used to open a 0.21mm hole to 0.22?

That's a change of 0.0004"

Steve

For reference, 2ml of oil:



My first watch hand made from thin wire wrapped around a small jewelers screwdriver, then twisted, soldered and painted. This one is easy as it just presses onto the center pivot.





Then my second watch hand roughed out. This one is more difficult as it is pressed onto the outer cylinder that is recessed below the dial. The minute hand will be more difficult. The second hand is original and presses onto the fully recessed center pivot. I made the flange with an awl, punching the hole into an appropriate sized hole to form. Then snipped out with scissors and filed a bit.

[RSG]

Neat stuff ctwo! Show us more of what you are working on.

I just got some bearing jewels in the mail the other day for my project. These are the largest I could find. I still have to make the bloc settings, along with a bunch of other things.

[ctwo]

I received my 6497-2 movements. The add said "Hands: hour, minute, second..." There is only a minute hand. Here is a case design I roughed out. Simple machined out of aluminum round and plexi.



I also received my broken Swiss seven jewel stop watch. Sometime they just need a clean. This one has a broken third wheel pivot. I machined some drill rod down to 15 thou diameter, heat treated, and have been honing it into a drill bit. The replacement pivot will likely be a piece of a stainless sewing needle and final honed to size after pressed into the drilled out pinion.

[NP317]

I am impressed with your work!
RussN

[ctwo]

That compound gear, or wheel/pinion - above - I'm trying figure a good way to hold it for drilling.

My first attempt was to turn an Al disc larger than the wheel, drill a hole the size of the pinion, then slot the disc so it could close onto the pinion gear in the 3-jaw. It was too fiddly, and it would be pushing the pinion into the chuck, and it would index on the pinion gear.

Second idea is to bore a shallow pocket in some Al round stock for the wheel and index on the larger wheel. Then use a bar to clamp it, or just simply glue it.



Pressures should be low but it's important to keep minimum runout and easy removal without residue. This is like putting a leash on a baby mosquito.

Also, how can I hold a stainless straight pin (the kind you get in your dress shirts) to hone its diameter down?

[Harold_V]

You might consider simply drilling and reaming a small hole that allows the shaft on the left end of the gear to fit the hole. By reaming, it should end up perpendicular and round enough to reliably locate the gear assembly properly. Grip a scrap piece of aluminum in your mill vise then flycut the surface so it's perpendicular to the spindle. Once flycut, choose the location for the hole you'll drill, then lock the sadle and table. You may have to counterbore (use an end mill that is larger in diameter than the shoulder). You can restrain it easy enough by simply placing a washer the assembly once it is inserted in the hole and applying light pressure with a finger clamp. The counterbore will allow the gear to keep the assembly at a right angle, as it will locate on the gear, not the shoulder. All of this can be done easily in a vertical mill.

As for holding the stainless straight pin---you may find it is a collet size, assuming you have collet capability. If not, it can be held quite nicely using a small Albrecht drill chuck. They are made in acceptable ranges so miniscule items can be securely gripped. I own one of the 0-1/8" models, equipped with a ½" straight shank. Makes it easy to use for miniature work and can be held either in a collet or gripped in a larger drill chuck. They are not cheap.

If you have a drill chuck that won't close down tight enough to grip the pin, consider making a tiny sleeve. It won't require splitting, assuming you can drill a hole that is near the size of the pin and you choose a reasonably small diameter of material so it collapses without effort. Delrin might be a good choice, as it drills easily.

H

[ctwo]

I discovered my cheap HF benchtop drill press keyless chuck could hold the straight pin. I used a stone to hone it down to near size, with a notched piece of aluminum to back it up from flexing, then finish hone with a ruby stone. I got a 13-12.5 thou taper over ~1/4" The small end would just fit into the pivot hole.

I honed my drill bit down a bit more and sharpened it again for what seemed like a better profile.

I used a PVC disc, beveled to set into the notches in my lathe chuck jaws and pre-drilled some mounting screws, then faced and center drilled. You'll see the picture.

I had my magnifiers on and went in to drill, I saw some chips, it was about 5 thou deep so I went in for a second pass, saw a few more chips, then the pinion gear popped up and down, and disappeared.



I was weary of clamping onto the larger wheel for what just happened. Then I figured the drill was so small and would be pushing the pinion back into the wheel, so should be alright. It wasn't. I should have stuck with my original plan to clamp the pinion gear.

I went through some mixed emotions, that it was a lost cause, then that maybe I could still salvage that gear, but most of all I wanted to know how my drilling went! I spent a few hours sifting through my chip pan, which wasn't clean. I can't find it...

[pete]

Old school tiny part holding at one time used what were called shellac chucks. Basically a truly faced off piece of scrap a bit larger in diameter than the part, added drilled or bored holes if there's any protruding parts on the back side, and a coat of that Shellac applied to the face of the scrap. The part is held in position until that Shellac dries and locks the part in place for further work. All your making is a true running mini face plate and using the dried Shellac as the method to fixture the part in place without damaging it. It would also need refacing every time it's been removed from the lathe chuck. Today we have faster and better. The Clickspring channel on Youtube uses a lot of Cyanoacrylate adhesive (super glue) and the proper accelerator to do the same thing in seconds instead of waiting for that Shellac to dry. Then when the machining is done he uses acetone to release the part. If you try this, just remember that super glue grip would be a bit fragile if there's any interrupted cutting, so smaller depths of cut and feed rates might be a good idea. Like most glues it's strongest in tension and less so in a shear condition.

Those old school watch makers also used a lot of what were called ring chucks made from proper seasoned and dried slow growth Boxwood. It's a very tight grain and hard wood and at one time a whole lot more common than it is today. A lot of those ring chucks I've seen pictures of showed them closely bored to the part O.D. and multiple cuts made with a fine toothed hand saw while it was still in the lathe chuck much like a steel collet has. Some of them used little more than tightly twisted wire to then close the wooden collets segment fingers down and hold the part. Most I've seen have a relief cut made at the approximate position of the parts depth in the wooden collet to correctly set the wire position as it's being tightened. So far I've never tried making and using one. But if it was good enough for them it should be good enough for us. I doubt construction grade fir or pine would be good enough because of it's more open grain structure and differences in how each wooden collet finger closes that might not hold the part as concentric as you'd want, but I've not tried it either. Simple logic says they must have had a good reason for choosing a specific wood with those quality's. Then again they didn't have aluminum back then, so that might be even better if the walls of the chuck were cut just thin enough to allow them to be compressed onto the part. It also wouldn't be impossible to damage a delicate part or gear teeth if a aluminum collet were tightened too much. Some of the harder plastics might work as well?

[Harold_V]

I spent a few hours sifting through my chip pan, which wasn't clean. I can't find it...

That's a tough way to learn the lesson of cleaning out the chip pan when you work with tiny objects. I've dropped thread wires in a pan of chips. Amazing how they blend.

Proper thread wires are exceedingly expensive. They are worth finding.

Sorry to read of your misfortune with the gear. Is all lost now?

H

[ctwo]

Is all lost now?

H

Only if I give up. They do sell gears, but I'd be hard pressed to find this one - even a parts watch would be cheaper - that's what this one was sold for anyway. I need to figure out what this movement is.

I image that if I found the gear I'd try to soft solder it back on. I could also try making the gear and use the SS pin all the way through.

[NP317]

Sorry you lost the gear. BTDT
Next time lay a clean cloth across the lathe ways under the chuck.
This has saved my falling parts in the past.
RussN

[ctwo]

Yep, I had a terry cloth towel over the ways for every previous operation with any of these small parts in the machine. I don't even like bringing them into the shop. They're hard enough to see just sitting on a well used bench.

Anyone want to play where's Waldo? I found it, it's in there, somewhere within middle ninth. It even has the piece of drill bit stuck in it. I might just leave it for the pivot. I thought the gear was splined and pressed in, but it looks like it's just a round hole that gets swaged in. I've watched some other video where I see they just lightly spline the center and then spin press or just hammer a pointed diameter to deform the brass wheel tight onto the pinion.



This link is closer with it dead center. Look to the left and right https://i.imgur.com/qiUPCsr.jpg

To help make this easier, I first used coarse screen to filter off the bigger stuff. It was easy to look through that. Then I used a finer screen that the gear could not pass to get rid of the smaller stuff. My pile of chips went in half, maybe less. 15 minutes after that to spot it using 7x mag.