Setting up first shop

[dpeterson3]

Its been a long time since I posted on here. I've wanted to build a small steam locomotive for years (since I was a kid and took a ride at the WFP in saint louis), and now that I'm done with school and just moved into a house with a large shop space, I might actually be able to start working on my dream. However, before that happens, I need to acquire the tools to do so. From what I can tell, I need (at bare minimum)

1) Welder
2) Mill
3) Lathe
4) Braising torch
5) All the tooling/accessories to go with the above
6) metal

I am completely green have only welded one time with a tig welder to lay down a test bead, and have never used a lathe or mill. Does anyone have advice on how to get started? I am not sure what to even look for when looking for mills/lathes. I don't know what kind of welder I will need (mig or tig?) Once I acquire the tools, I am not sure how to get started using them. I would normally look for a club in the area, but have yet to find anything close (Mobile, Al). Even the local makerspace doesn't have anyone yet for these kind of tools.

I do have ready access to some metal. My wife is an engineer at a plate mill, and can buy some of the scrap plates for a little more than cost, but I am not sure what kind of steel to look for. Are there certain grades that are better for hobby work?

[Glenn Brooks]

Well, you have a great outline for your shop. You’ll definitely need to add a band saw of some kind and a decent drill press. These two items are the cheapest things to have and arguably, the most necessary to prep raw materials. maybe start looking for one of each early on.

In terms of getting acquainted with machining, you might look for Mr. Pete’s machining videos on you tube. AKA ‘Tubalcane’. He has produced a lot of good stuff. He is an old time HS shop teacher. So his videos are well organized, very explanatory, and focused on a specific subject.

Also, you might consider signing up for a machining class at your local community college. Lots of them have part time evening programs - basically intro courses for hobbyists, and full time day programs. Welding programs work the same way.

Definitely join a live steam club in your region- even if you get to the track once or twice a year. The networking and mentor ship are usually exceptional.

Good luck on your hobby. It’s a lot of fun to participate in.

Glenn

[BadDog]

You'll want cutting options too. Plasma, bandsaw, O/A cutting rig, chop saw, angle grinders with cutting disks, etc. Most common are HF 4x6 bandsaws, and your braising rig will likely be O/A, so add a cutting torch to that, a few angle grinders, and you have a decent start.

[Greg_Lewis]

I second the advice of checking out the local community college. While the virus has probably put that on hold, there might be something they have worked out. In any event, I think the best advice I can give regarding accumulating shop equipment is to go slow. Every machine and every brand and model has advantages and disadvantages and there is no one-size-fits-all. Many of us have bought stuff we just had to have only to discover that it didn't work out. Many of us have spent a decade or more building up our shop equipment.

A lot of it is learning to work with the tools you have, and the only way to learn that is with experience. I'd start with a lathe, drill press and one of those 4x6 horizontal/vertical bandsaws. I would say that those tools are what I've used most in building my steamer. In fact, I think I've spent more time at the drill press than any other power tool. Get a lathe with a spindle bore large enough that it will take collets. And while many folks do amazing work with 9- or 10-inch lathes, I'd recommend going for a 12- or 13-inch machine. There is no substitute for mass in a machine tool. Even if you're building an engine in a smaller scale than the common 1 1/2-inch scale, the larger work envelope of the 12-inch machine is often convenient.

Don't think about materials at this point. You'll get what you need when you need it. If you want something to learn and have fun with, subscribe to the Home Shop Machinist and try some of the projects there, or buy a couple of their project books. The Shop Made Tools series might be worth a look. You'll learn a lot by making some of your own tooling such as a toolpost for the lathe, carriage stop, die holders, tap wrench, etc. These things don't require much in material and are often well within the skill level of a beginner so any mistakes aren't costly.

[curtis cutter]

Add an air compressor to your list.

If it were me I would have added $ to the list of needs years ago...

[dpeterson3]

Thanks for the replies. I forgot about a floor-standing drill press. I have a bench one, and I overload it too easily as it is. I also own a 10" wood bandsaw and a 40 gallon compressor.

I have been looking for night courses to take. So far everything I can find is for learning to program CNC machines. I have taken a course in that, and I am an automation engineer by trade, so I can do the programming for CNC. I am having a lot of trouble finding courses for hands-on machining, though. Welding is no problem. Does it typically go by a title other than machine or manual mill/lathe?

I use to be a member of the St. Louis Live Steamers, but was not very active due to school, and had to drop it after school got too busy. I have heard of 2 clubs in my area. One is in Silverhill, AL on an RV resort. I have tried to get in touch with the 7.5" coordinator there with no luck so far. I have been told there is a track at the museum in Gulfport, but have not been able to confirm that. Does anyone know of any others in the Mobile area?

Lastly, my wife is understanding about these things, but I do need to present her with a budget to start saving up for equipment. Roughly what are decent used tools running? I have a hard time telling because I don't know enough to know what kind of shape is going to work for me.

[SteveM]

What I do is buy and sell machines and tooling to fund the shop.

I've pretty much built my entire shop starting with a dollar.

I keep house money and shop money separate so that I don't drag the family down, I have to budget and my wife can't blame me for spending on anything

The tooling will cost more than you think. You get a nice South Bend 9A for $1,000 and then the toolpost and tool holders will set you back one third of that. When you buy machines, try to get ones that have tooling with them as well as accessories. You don't want to be looking for things like steady rests and threading dials. When looking at lathes, look for one with a quick change toolpost. On lathes, you want one with a quick change gearbox.

Buy the machine you are going to keep FIRST. Don't buy an Atlas lathe and figure you will upgrade (note: I have an Atlas). If you get something like a South Bend, Logan, or Sheldon, you will have something you won't need to upgrade unless you outgrow it size wise.

Speaking of size, that will dictate your machine - you can't easily (if at all) machine a set of 8" diameter drivers on a South Bend 9" lathe. If you are looking at 1" or 3/4" scale, that lathe would be fine. Same thing with your mill.

Also, shop access will dictate your choices. I don't know too many people who got a bridgeport into the basement thru the kitchen, but if you have ground level access, you can pretty much get anything you might want to use into the shop.

You didn't say where you are. You can put your location in your profile and it will show up on your posts.

The reason I'm asking about location, is that that will determine what you can find and what you have to pay.

I found a WWII era South Bend model C lathe in Wisconsin for $2,000. I sold that same lathe in Connecticut for $400.

Steve

[Greg_Lewis]

...

Roughly what are decent used tools running? I have a hard time telling because I don't know enough to know what kind of shape is going to work for me.

Not to be a wise guy, but it's about the same as a car. In other words, you'll find prices all over the board. It also depends on your location and what you are looking at. Where I live used lathes in the hobby sizes are high because there is no industrial base and thus no supply from which to draw. A used 12-inch will, IMHO, run more around here than it's worth while something with a 30-inch swing will be at scrap prices. You might pay a visit to a couple of local machine shops and see if there is a dealer near you they'd recommend. (And they might have a lead on something. Some of this stuff sort of stays in the family, so to speak.) There is nothing wrong with buying used as long as you are careful. I'd not buy anything from a production shop but something from a school or maintenance shop would more than likely be low mileage. Spend some time on Craigslist (search out of your area too) and Ebay (checking the sold listings) just to get a feel for the market.

Of course, you can buy new as well but many of us prefer the older American iron as the new Asian stuff can be inconsistent in quality. If you go this route, again, I'd visit at least a half-dozen local machine shops and see what they say. They don't have time to fiddle with junk so they would know what sources you can trust.

[Wolfgang]

OP: You stated "a small steam locomotive" so I assume a 3/4" scale model.
You have a drill press, so the next tool to buy is a lathe. A 9" or 10" lathe is ample for a 3/4" model locomotive. I agree that a good used American/Canadian/ German/Austrian lathe is the preferred way to go (I have an Emco Maier V10P as a work horse) and built a 3/4" Canadian Pacific Hudson loco with it, along with a lot of tooling and other models.
Next would be a milling machine. In my opinion a Bridgeport is overkill sizewise. And I do not subscribe to the mantra that bigger is better... For steam locomotive builders a horizontal milling machine is not to be sneezed at because it makes easy work of all the side rods with fluting. My own machine is a 6" x 20" table Japanese horizontal knee mill to which I have fitted a Bridgeport M head. Do NOT purchase a Chinese "post mill" even though these are quite cheap. Get a knee mill or a dove tail column mill.
Agreed that you should attempt to obtain as much tooling with each machine as is available at that source.
Next would be a band saw, vertical type. I adapted a 12" Rockwell/Beaver saw to cut metal by adding a reduction gear box. A sturdy wood cutting saw will make a splendid metal cutting saw as well.
Then a torch suitable for silver soldering. For small work a good propane torch suffices; Use a Mapp or MPS fuel gas for somewhat larger work. For copper boiler work an oxy-fuel torch is pretty well required, along with a 1" propane torch for pre-heating all that copper.
And sets of drills, reamers, boring tools, milling cutters, threading taps and dies, etc. etc.
A manual machining course at a local college will save much time and aggravation. If this is not possible see if a local club member will mentor you.
Remember that most of us spent decades assembling our shops one piece at a time as the need/opportunity arose.
Good luck! Wolfgang

[dpeterson3]

I should clarify that when I say small, I meant 1.5" scale 7.5" gauge since it is the most popular. I want to start with a 4-6-2 (which I see as small, but I know some see as big), and go from there. I have the drill press, but its a bench-top central machinery press that bends too easily when loaded.

My bandsaw is a craftsman 10" made by rikon. I have been unable to find suitable metal blades for it yet. I don't have a spot welder yet. Would investing in one be worth wild for making blades for my saw?

I'm in the Mobile, Al area, so it is fairly industrial area. I have been watching for used machines, but not much coming up. I might be looking in the wrong place. I have been checking Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace (seems to be a lot more active). Is there somewhere else to look?

My new house has a very nice shop space. The previous owner built it for antique car restoration. It is 26x36 with 10 foot ceilings. It has a 240V power connection with an extension cord off the box to install a welder anywhere in the shop.

[Russ Hanscom]

You can, and need to, be flexible; depending on what you have and what you can find. I started with a 14" Jet bench drill press 50 years ago and it is still my primary one. I finally got a floor mount Wilton drill press two years ago - a mill can also double as a drill press. First air compressor was a home brew with a refrigeration compressor which lasted for years until I found a good Quincy.

A good project is to make a speed reducer for a wood bandsaw; I ran a 14" Delta knockoff for years doing all of my metal cutting on it until I was lucky enough to acquire a Doall.

I prefer a high quality used tool that I refurbish over a cheap new one if the option presents itself. I expect that I spend more time making the shop what I want than I do on actual end projects but that is just me; it fits my time money balance.

[seal killer]

dpeterson3--

Regarding learning the use of machine tools, specifically the mill, lathe and band saws . . . I began this hobby knowing absolutely nothing. It sounds like you are above that level. Although I could have gone to the local vocational education school for those courses, my family and job commitments made that option unworkable.

I learned everything I know on this forum and using that knowledge I was able to gain experience using the mill and later, the lathe. Combined, this forum and that experience were invaluable to me. In all the years I've belonged to this forum, I have never asked a question that was not answered quickly by competent individuals. Often, the forum threads generated by questions generate answers to unasked, but vital questions, especially to those of us with little or no experience.

--Bill