Precision Toolmaker's Vises

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ctwo
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Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by ctwo »

Thanks to Tom Lipton, I got the urge to buy a small vise. These are similar to the ones from Shars, but I got them from ebay.

I measured all contact surfaces for parallelism and they were about a tenth on each surface worst case, most much less, and no more than two tenths between two common faces. I got two close serial #s.

Except the end face that the Fowler is on, which is a few thou between the two. Does that even matter?
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SteveM
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by SteveM »

If the width of the fixed jaw (from the end of the vise to the clamping surfac) is the same, then if you set them both up against a stop on the table, the part in each will be in the same position, so you would be fine.

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tornitore45
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by tornitore45 »

This are really small. I use mine when a small part needs a compound angle or need to be held with an attitude the regular vise does not favor. It can be useful for the right job but not too often.
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by pete »

I've got a pair that are a bit larger since they open to about 2 1/2" that I got from Enco years ago. Unfortunately when I bought mine the bed height's and most of the other dimensions were not matched even close to being the same. For the smaller one's like those and when used as a sub vise within a larger mill vise it probably doesn't matter, but later on when I bought a larger 4" capacity I specifically searched for one that also had the side slots and not just the two end slots for fastening to the mill table, rotary table etc. That opens up a few more options for where and how there used. Yours look a lot better made than mine are, but one of mine had far more clearance between the sides of the cross pin yoke and the pin diameter to the half holes that pin drops into when tightening the vise. That allowed the pin to turn a bit and catch at the top of one of the half holes. That vise is really hard and maybe not tempered as well as it should be? Anyway the pin chipped a fairly large piece off the corner of that half hole. I ended up making a new yoke and pin that fit a lot tighter within the slot it's guided in so it kept the cross pin square and inline with those half holes. It then worked much better so that might be something worth double checking on yours.

The tightening cap screws on both of mine were also quite soft so I replaced them with much better American made one's. For smaller parts or changing the part holding orientation within the mill vise there pretty handy, but like Mauro mentioned it just depends on the type of machining and part size you generally do for just how useful they are. There also really meant for use on a surface grinder, EDM, part inspection etc and probably not for general milling even though they can be. So if you've got a surface grinder that obviously increases just how useful they are. Yours also look like a better design than mine are with that built in step that acts like a fixed height parallel. But I wish they'd make them with tapped holes in both jaw faces so shop made jaw inserts could be bolted in place like most of the larger mill vises have. The Hermann Schmidt's have that but few with a home shop can afford one of those.https://www.hschmidt.com/product/precis ... city-v0-4/
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ctwo
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by ctwo »

The only face that is not within two tenths is the end that the Fowler is on, so I would not be able to put them both side-by-side and clamp them on the front/back in a larger milling vise. It seems that would be the easiest thing to fix with a surface grinder. I also have a 3" that I should check. I use it on my small mill because of I saw Stefan Gotteswinter prefers that kind of vise.

I've been looking for an affordable surface grinder for a long time. For some reason the prices went up 4x since when I first started looking. I just checked craigslist and see a Hammond for $500, so I sent them an email and we will see...
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GlennW
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by GlennW »

If you need two of them to hold something and are concerned with alignment, why not just use one larger vise?
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by pete »

Not sure about Ctwo, but the two I first bought WERE the larger vises for the tiny mill they were meant for Glenn. :-)
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ctwo
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by ctwo »

So this little vise did not grip my part well enough. A 1" x 1/2" x 1/8" piece of aluminum bar, four times, and sticking up the long way. I wanted to mill identical features on the ends of each and the vise would provide a good indexing platform.

I tightened the jaw, which the screw had a long reach, till it clicked - meaning I stripped the allen socket. OK, the screw and allen key are soft. It was hard to get my parts out, but I did without issue. How would've you recovered?
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by pete »

As I mentioned I remade the Yoke on one of mine and since I was remaking it anyway I changed the screw pitch from metric to imperial and used a properly hardened American made shcs. My guess is the screw shank or the yoke threads would shear before the allen socket stripped. I just used mild steel for that yoke, but I made it as long as the internal space would allow. From memory I think that got me at least 3-4 threads more than the original part had. Because of how they work, there's a variable amount of threads engaged into that yoke depending on your part dimensions and how that matches up with each position the cross pin engages with those half holes in the vise bed. So I figured with an unhardened part I'd want the maximum number of threads to prevent that stripping issue. Since doing so I've so far never had a problem and I usually have a bad habit of over tightening most things. I got curious after your post and just checked that 4" capacity Accu-Pro I bought. Fwiw and depending on the movable jaws position, it has anywhere between 6 and 12 threads engaged at all times so those threads are still a lot stronger than the metal it's made from.But one of the other reasons I like these ground on all surfaces vises is they can be used on there sides or even ends. Putting the part in horizontally in the jaws with the required part stick out and then clamping the vise down on it's side might have worked better? You might still need a vise jaw spacer of the same dimensions as the part and placed at the jaws other end so the jaw doesn't rack though.

Aluminum also has a fairly low coefficient of friction, it's even worse against those smooth hardened and ground jaw faces so the clamping loads need to be higher. Modern paper sheets (printer paper) is remarkably consistent for thickness, it can also help to increase grip on parts. I've used it sometimes between the part and jaw faces when I think the set up might need a bit more grip. Additional grip is needed even more if any of the part surfaces your clamping to are un-machined and still have there mill finish since there not exactly flat or consistently even. So that reduces your clamping power even more.
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ctwo
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by ctwo »

That's a great idea, pete. I have some drill rod to make a new yoke, and for some reason they used a shallow button head screw which really is not necessary. I counted 8 threads engaged but there is plenty of room to make that yoke twice its size, and be less fiddly when moving it around.

I managed to open it by squeezing the jaws in my mill vise.
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by Harold_V »

I'm not sure I understand the need for tiny vises for small work. I specialized in small when I operated my shop for gain, and used a 5" Kurt for everything (once it had replaced the BP vise I started with).

While I've shown this part several times before, I used a 1" parallel clamp as a screw handle to limit the ability to crush the delicate part I was holding. The "spike" you see is a common straight pin.

Antenna Latches resized.jpg

While a small vise may appear to be mandatory, how you make setups is key to work holding. By carefully selecting parallels, pretty much any size part can be held in a large vise.

On that note, it's important that one's assortment of parallels includes a set of those that are only 1/8" thick. It also pays to have on hand a pair of long feeler gauges of various thicknesses, so you can elevate the parallels to a specific height.

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ctwo
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Re: Precision Toolmaker's Vises

Post by ctwo »

I understand. I had several copies to make and started out with parallel clamps, which did not provide the holding/indexing convenience. It seems hard for me to place small parts when hunched over the mill table, and I wanted them all to have the same angles. They were fairly straight forward parts but I had fun with the project and the results provided utility. Of course there are probably a half dozen other ways to accomplish it...And now, I have something more to do...
Standards are so important that everyone must have their own...
To measure is to know - Lord Kelvin
Disclaimer: I'm just a guy with a few machines...
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