Mill & Lathe: Where to Put Them?

[SteveHGraham]

Yesterday I got my second electrical panel installed in the workshop, so now I can put the phase converter on the wall and have my machines moved in. I read somewhere that it's okay to put more than three #3 wires in 3/4" conduit. The person who wrote that must have a great sense of humor. It's true that you can get three in, if your run is a foot long with no bends. I switched to 1", and now that it's done, I can see that 1.25" was the way to go.

I have a 100-amp main panel, and I used a 100-amp breaker to feed the subpanel. Obviously, I know I won't get 200 amps this way, but it seemed better to have a generous breaker on the subpanel than to fiddle around with smaller sizes and do a lot of math. I ended up with EXACTLY the right amount of wire. I have slack in two wires, but one just makes it to the frame size breaker that feeds the panel. I don't know what the requirements are for slack, if any, but I have an offset Polaris connector (thanks, Patio) on the way so I can add a few inches.

I should get to the subject. I have enough room on one wall for my 16x40 lathe and my Bridgeport-sized Chaiwan mill. I am thinking I should put the lathe in the middle of the workshop along the wall, with the mill to its right, toward the corner. I don't know if it matters which machine is closest to the corner. I was thinking it might be a bad idea to have the tailstock of the lathe near a wall, because something might need to hang out. I have never had that issue, however.

It also occurred to me that it could conceivably be useful at some point to use the mill table to support the end of a really long lathe workpiece.

Anyway, here is my question. Should the mill back up in the corner, or should I have the table parallel to the wall? What do you think?

I have had it crammed in a corner, and I'm not thrilled with the ergonomics. It kills the whole corner and makes the wall space inaccessible. It's also hard to vacuum behind the mill. But I thought I should hear from people whose mills face directly away from the wall.

[SteveHGraham]

The shop is 30 feet square. I am thinking I'll put the workbench (or lift table) parallel to the north wall, about 10 feet away. Then I plan to put big tools along the wall and tool chests in line with the workbench. This will give me a long rectangular work area with the tools and bench facing in.

I suppose I could put the machine tools out where I plan to put the tool chests, facing the wall, and put the tool chests against the wall, facing the machines, instead. Might make more sense, since it's easy to move a tool chest out to clean behind it. But I would have to have pretty serious cords running across the shop to the machines from the wall. I could hang them from trusses, I suppose. The copper would cost a fair amount!

One thing is for sure: the workbench or lift table will not be near the wall.

[Harold_V]

It also occurred to me that it could conceivably be useful at some point to use the mill table to support the end of a really long lathe workpiece.

Careful! You're coming down with mental health!

Anyway, here is my question. Should the mill back up in the corner, or should I have the table parallel to the wall? What do you think?

What I think is that putting a mill in the corner isn't a good idea. It limits the size of material that can be placed on the machine. That may not seem important, but I use my machines for machining anything that needs machining, and that includes door bottoms or pieces of lumber.

No, I don't think wood has no place on machine tools. Sure, it makes a mess, but it does no harm, and lends a degree of precision to any given project.

My suggestion to you is to ensure that you can machine a piece at least 8' long. If it hits the walls on either side of the mill, the mill is not well placed.

I have had it crammed in a corner, and I'm not thrilled with the ergonomics. It kills the whole corner and makes the wall space inaccessible. It's also hard to vacuum behind the mill.

Another sure sign of mental health.

H

[liveaboard]

Machinist I knew in India had a window with a grill over it, had a ring set in that lined up with the headstock bore.
I suppose you could do that with the tailstock end too.

[SteveHGraham]

What's better? Mill at the head of the lathe or mill at the tail?

Another problem: if I have the lathe out in the floor facing the wall, and then I put something heavy on it, I'll have to roll the heavy workpiece between the lathe and the wall. I suppose I could do that, but I was hoping to have the workbench parallel to the lathe and next to it, and if I get a lift and use it as a bench, I will have a lot of fun moving the bench to get a crane or whatever to the lathe.

But I did want a lift I could move...

My shop has two 16' garage doors at opposing ends. I am holding onto the idea of leaving the space by the east door open so I can move big things in, but maybe I need to let that go. I don't keep the tractors in the shop now, so I don't need a highway in there. If I need to bring a vehicle in, I can always use the west door.

[SteveHGraham]

I saw a clever idea on another forum. You make little paper cutouts representing your tools, and you arrange them on a scale drawing of your shop. It's a lot faster than trying to use CAD or something. I'm giving it a try.

It appears that the best thing is to dump the idea of putting the mill at the end of the lathe. I can always change my mind later. I think I'll stick the lathe against the wall and put the mill out in the floor opposite it. This way, the mill won't destroy 7 feet of wall space, and I'll be able to get in behind it AND put it close to my bench.

I can put my welding stuff at the far end of the shop, past the machine tools.

I'm trying to decide whether I want a fancy welding table like a Certiflat Fabblock. Seems like other people do well enough with things that are less complicated and expensive, and I would expect to be able to make very flat slabs on the mill, complete with drilled and tapped holes at very regular intervals. Whatever I get, it will have to have wheels. Wheels are great.

The old Harbor Freight table is wonderful for tiny projects that don't weigh much, but it flops around a lot, and the top is on the small side. I'm hoping I can get by with 2' by 3', which is over a third larger.

[Steggy]

I read somewhere that it's okay to put more than three #3 wires in 3/4" conduit. The person who wrote that must have a great sense of humor. It's true that you can get three in, if your run is a foot long with no bends. I switched to 1", and now that it's done, I can see that 1.25" was the way to go.

The recommended maximum wire fill for any given conduit size is primarily concerned with temperature rise, not ease of installation. In general, I stay below 50 percent fill, even on short runs. Fir example, I have 208 VAC single-phase distributed around my shop in 1 inch EMT, which is for powering my welding equipment. The circuit consists of two AWG-6 conductors, which is good for 60 amps over the distances involved. Those two conductors are slightly less than 50 percent fill. I also have 208 VAC three-phase power distributed for running my machines. That is split into several circuits, each with three AWG-12 hots, as well as a single AWG-14 neutral for the lights that are on two of the machines. There is one fractional and one integral horsepower machine on each circuit, mostly to avoid nuisance breaker trips. That wiring is also run in 1 inch EMT, which results in about 50 percent fill.

The point is, it isn't a matter of how hard or easy the pull is. What matters is adherence to code.

[SteveM]

I saw a clever idea on another forum. You make little paper cutouts representing your tools, and you arrange them on a scale drawing of your shop. It's a lot faster than trying to use CAD or something. I'm giving it a try.

I have a piece of graph paper on which I drew the shop, and the machines, toolboxes, shelves and cabinets are all made out of Post-it notes, which lets me stick and remove them.

You could even use different color Post-its to represent different things.

Steve

[Mr Ron]

Stop overthinking everything. Just do what YOU think is best. If you don't like it, then change it. Don't expect everyone to do your thinking for you.

[SteveHGraham]

I stuck the phase converter on the wall today, so now all that's left to do is to install outlets. I plan to put two 50's and two 20's on the north wall. I also plan to run wire over the trusses to a junction box on the south wall, and from there I'll install one 50 and two more 20's. Finally, I'll need to run more wire to the southwest corner, where I plan to stick the compressor.

The wire is going to cost a lot, but I should have all the bases covered when I'm done.

The compressor runs fine on a 20-amp circuit, but I am thinking of making the run 40 or 50 amps because I may want a bigger compressor. Another blow to the wire budget.

The good news is that I can use Romex because the conduit runs will be short.

The outlet locations are based on my latest shop layout plan. Hope it turns out to be a good one.

[warmstrong1955]

My shop is 20' wide, with a 16' door.
As you walk in the big door, the lathe is along the left wall, and the mill is on the right wall. Both are basically centered front to back.
With the lathe. I can run stock out the door, and set it on rollers if need be, if it fits thru the spindle. I have also had shafts over 6' long, using a steadyrest for a tailstock. Things you do when you only have a 40" capability.
I have plenty of space to put things on the mill table, at least 8' long. Longest I have done, was 6'. I can also bring in heavy stuff with my pallet lift, and come in at an angle to get it on the table. If I need to come in straight, my table saw is on wheels.

Not often I handle long or heavy stuff anymore....but I still can.

[SteveHGraham]

The lathe and mill will now be able to handle long work, but I won't be able to support lathe work on the mill. I don't think it's a big sacrifice. If I ever need to do it, I can always move a machine.