Modems and extortion

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Harold_V
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Modems and extortion

Post by Harold_V »

I know we have some very computer literate people on this board, so I'm hoping one or more of them will lend some of their expertise to my situation.

Here's the deal.

My ISP offered a DSL connection about five years ago, which was a significant upgrade from the old dial-up we used to endure. However, in time, with larger files being forwarded and an overload of the service, it had slowed to a crawl, often only a little better than a dial-up. Endless complaining to the provider served no purpose.

Fast forward to the last year. Fiber optic cable has been installed in our area, albeit overhead, not buried. We are still served by copper from the latest equipment, but it is performing significantly better than it had been previously.

Now the fly in the ointment. We received notice that they will be sending a new modem to each subscriber, for which they want to charge an ongoing monthly fee of $8.00. I fee I hope to avoid, as I hope to avoid any ongoing fee when ownership of a given device (in this case, a modem) will prevent my paying for one over and over again. It doesn't help the cause that I am rather thrifty (read that "cheap"), and that I live on social security.

I do not know a great deal about computers and the related equipment, and that includes modems. They have provided some guidelines for those who prefer to buy their own, but it means little to me, as I do not understand the terms used. I am able to find modems, but do not know how to determine which would be proper for my use.

The modem must adhere to the following protocols:
ADSL2+, G.992.5 (Annex M), VDSL2 (8d AND 17a profiles), G.INP, G.998.x (bonding), and G.993.5 (G vector).

The modem I need doesn't have to be wireless, nor must it be a router. We have but one computer, hard wired, and our service DOES NOT interact with any other devices (like a phone).

Any suggestions?

Thanks! :wink:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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BadDog
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by BadDog »

Sorry, I'm quite computer literate, but don't know anything about ADSL.

However, I will share my personal approach to this problem, though it may not be to your liking.

I have Cox internet that generally serves me quite well most of the time, and they have the same type of deal with the required modem. But, I've lived all over the country and found that regardless of the name on their letterhead, they all approach troubleshooting much the same way. I'm pretty sure they all have a support diagnostic flow chart for tech support that goes through a list of simple to check issues, which if not resolving the problem will all end in a single box that says "blame their modem". Getting them to do ANYTHING else at that point require arguing, which I'm quite up to, but when you are dealing with a persistent problem requiring multiple dispatches, it gets old. And, if I'm wrong, and it is MY modem, then I pay for the dispatch fee...

In the end I realized I had 2 choices.

1) Keep 2 or more "known good" modems on hand to swap out to prove it isn't the modem, and avoid risking being wrong and paying for a dispatch. It's even quite possible they could claim it was the modem when it wasn't.
2) Pay their rental so it's their modem and not my problem. It's quite satisfying when I walk them through their flow chart, inevitably winding up on "it must be your modem", and my response is a simple. "That's YOUR modem, how soon can you have someone here?"

I went with option 2 some years ago and haven't regretted it. Behind that modem I can put any commercial/consumer router I chose, upgraded at will, wireless or otherwise, complete control in configuring. And best yet, easily verifiable to 100% certainty that it's not my equipement.

They've also had a few required upgrades over time that result in them coming to my house with a new modem for a "free" upgrade. If I owned my own, then it would be on me to buy 2 (or more) of the new modems each time (or in some cases live with degraded service). It works for me. But then my ISP charges get allocated to my business, so it may be a bit like trying to apply commercial shop economic decisions to home shops, ymmv...
Russ
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LIALLEGHENY
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by LIALLEGHENY »

I have to agree with Russ "That's YOUR modem, how soon can you have someone here?". I have a cable modem and twice now I have had it replaced on the cable company own dime. Once it died, the other time was an upgrade. Considering how fast things change in the computer world, just about the time your saying "look at all the money I saved buy buying my own" your provider will be contacting you telling you there's been an upgrade to the system and your old modem will no longer work.

Nyle
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by SteveHGraham »

You can go to Best Buy's website and buy one there. They will list the specs.
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GlennW
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by GlennW »

BadDog wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:23 pm But, I've lived all over the country and found that regardless of the name on their letterhead, they all approach troubleshooting much the same way. I'm pretty sure they all have a support diagnostic flow chart for tech support that goes through a list of simple to check issues, which if not resolving the problem will all end in a single box that says "blame their modem".
So far, it HAS been my modem every time. It's been replaced too many times to count, and being a small town, they are here right away (because they like to see my shop) and I have never been charged anything outside of the normal monthly fee for the internet service which may in fact have a monthly fee for the modem, but I have never looked. I'd hate to have to spend the time and money to replace it each time.
Glenn

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John Hasler
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by John Hasler »

My first DSL modem was a Netopia supplied by my ISP, CenturyLink. Endless problems. Replaced that with a Siemens: fewer problems but lightning eventually got it [1]. Replaced that with a Westell. I had a few problems with it until I put it in bridge mode [2] and programmed my own router/firewall to handle the pppoe connection. No problems for many years (except that the disk drive in the router, a very old Dell, is failing. I'm setting up a replacement now using a single board computer with solid state storage.)

I can't give you any specific advice as I don't use Windows, but perhaps you can find someone local to help you do something similar.

[1] We now have underground electric service, which pretty much eliminates the lightning problem.

[2] This shuts down all the firewalling, routing, and pppoe functions of the router and makes it just a dumb modem. The people who write the software for these things seem to be incompetent. There is Free software to replace the garbage that wireless APs ship with but nothing for modems.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by SteveHGraham »

Harold, I tried to answer your actual question. I hope you're not drowning in nerd jargon.

Your ISP probably has a list of compatible modems. You should ask. Just don't tell them you're using a Commodore 64, or they may try to take advantage of you.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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Harold_V
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by Harold_V »

I have long held the belief that bad behavior should not be rewarded, which I keep in mind when I discuss our ISP.

Thanks for the replies, even those that are over my head.

Since posting, the promised modem has arrived. I have the option of returning it, or paying the monthly fee, which I detest, due in part to their indifference to the lousy service we've received for years. As an example, there's been countless numbers of days that I couldn't download email, and had to often go to their site to delete one that appeared to stop the download. It was often size related, but not always. It was common for the download to time out and stop.

They have a monopoly in our area, aside from satellite service. Cable is not available in our remote location. I don't want to do one damned thing that will be to their benefit unless I have exhausted all my options.

In my years of service I have had two modem failures. The ISP provided the simple modem (which is all I want), but couldn't resist jumping on the bandwagon in sending me a wireless, for which they hoped to extract a monthly fee. I told them I refused to pay, as it served no purpose beyond the one I had been using. I have remained modem fee free, and hope to continue to do so. We shall see.

Steve, I perused Best Buy's site briefly last night, and I thank you. I hadn't considered them as a source. A huge variety from which to pick. My next move is to engage the ISP to see if they do have an approved list. I hope to get a simple modem--not even wireless. It need not be a router/modem. I see no reason to pay for an 18 wheeler when a simple half ton pickup will serve our needs.

Mean time, keep the comments coming. No one is harmed by gaining knowledge.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
John Hasler
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by John Hasler »

Harold writes:
> As an example, there's been countless numbers of days that I couldn't download email,
> and had to often go to their site to delete one that appeared to stop the download.
> It was often size related, but not always. It was common for the download to
> time out and stop.

Newsguy.com has provided me with excellent email service for many years. Yes, I pay them money. That means that i have a real contract with them. Their job is to handle email for me. My ISP's job is to handle packets for me.
Last edited by John Hasler on Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by SteveHGraham »

Harold, I have a wild idea. Look at your modem and see if you can buy the same model.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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Harold_V
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by Harold_V »

Interesting comment, John, but it means nothing to me, as I clearly don't understand.

That said, I am cost conscious. I am not willing to pay for anything for which I have no use--and a modem with unused features is one of them. If I must pay "rent" for one, they can provide one that meets my needs.

I've given some thought to your idea, Steve, but I'd like to get a simple modem, a modem that does nothing more than allow me to hook up to the net with a single computer, hard wired. No Wi-Fi, it need not shine my shoes or serve my meals. The added features and capacity of the provided modem, for us, are of no use, and I don't see that changing in the future.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
John Hasler
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Re: Modems and extortion

Post by John Hasler »

Email service and ISP service are two different things. You need ISP service in order to get email, but you don't have to use the email server provided by your ISP (as you've noticed, their email service is usually quite poor). Once you have an account with Newsguy (or one of their competitors) you can configure whatever you use to read your email to use their server in exactly the same way you configure it to use your ISP's server.

You can get a "free" Webmail account from a advertising agency such as Google or Hotmail: this is a rare case in which "you get what you pay for" is true.
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