Products That Can be Worked on: too Much to Ask?

[SteveHGraham]

This week my John Deere garden tractor overheated, and the battery light came on. I didn't know enough to immediately conclude it had torn a belt. I fiddled with it one item at a time, removing the thermostat and so on. I saw two belts at the front of the engine, and I figured those were the only belts, but later on, I looked at the rear, and I saw some bare pulleys.

I got myself two likely belts from Tractor Supply, and when I got home to see which one fit best, I found that in order to replace an alternator belt, I had to remove the driveshaft from the rear of the engine.

That was just too much. It was boiling hot outside, I had no lift, I didn't want to take the tractor apart to access the shaft, and I was not happy. I read somewhere that somebody had fixed this problem with a linked belt, so I put a linked belt on the tractor, and the problem was solved.

While I was doing this, I dropped a bolt on the mower deck, and I could not find it, so I pulled the 300+-pound deck off. This is a very unpleasant job and probably not safe to perform because of the risk of back injury. I saw an ad where John Deere had a female model doing it very quickly. I wonder how many mechanics prepped and modified that deck for the ad. They don't work that way in real life.

When I pulled the deck out, I saw the muffler sitting on it. It had fallen out. Far as I can tell, it had come loose years ago, and it was only remaining in the tractor because it was trapped. When I ran the tractor, the noise level was the same as always, so obviously, I have not had any exhaust muffling, ever. A new can with two pipes...I mean "muffler"...costs $256. The one I have has a rectangular hole in the side, which someone must have made with a Dremel. Can't figure that out.

From what I understand, a new muffler is likely to break just like the old one, because it's a bad design.

Anyway, here's a question. Is it unreasonable to expect a garden tractor to be a little easier to work on than this? I am taking heat for complaining. I think a 90-pound woman should be able to slide a deck out from under a residential mower without straining her back. I think it should be possible to change an alternator belt in 10 minutes. I think the highly trained engineers at Yanmar or John Deere should have specified a linked belt, since random people on the Internet were able to come up with the idea.

I also find it hard to believe that a can with two pipes should sell for $256, given that I can buy a farm tractor muffler for about an eighth of that.

There were two bolts holding the thermostat in. I had to use a breaker bar on them. A strong impact driver didn't budge them. I had to use an impact driver to loosen the alternator's bolts, too. None of the fasteners were rusted.

Is it just my imagination, or are there some manufacturers and dealers who deliberately overtighten things in order to generate business? I remember trying to remove the oil filter on my Harley for the first time. It was overtightened, AND you're supposed to buy the special Harley tool, because a strap wrench or a wrench made for a socket will not fit.

I think I have a legitimate complaint, in a time when a mechanic can charge more for his time than many lawyers.

Shouldn't a company that charges $256 for a can have enough R&D money to make its products less painful to own?

[rrnut-2]

I have two JD lawn tractors and one JD compact tractor. The lawn tractors that we have, are not hard to work on. Some things on the compact tractor are a different story. That walk through floor is nice except when you have to repair/replace some thing. I just had to replace a steel hydraulic line from the valve to the quick disconnect for the loader. Since I had to remove the right hand rear wheel, fender, and floor board to get access to the hydraulic valve, I replaced all four lines. If I hadn't, you know that one of the others would have let go.

I bought my wife a new lawn tractor so I wouldn't have to work on the old one (20 years old). Now she wants me to keep it because it is all set up for the Cyclone Rake.

Jim B

[SteveHGraham]

Knowing how mechanical things are, I would expect one of the new hydraulic lines to fail at this point.

[spro]

A few years ago, there were JD advertisements about belly deck removal. The deck was disconnected, then you just drive over it but a broken muffler would mess that up. The frustration of two clean bolts being seized that tight means something. There was a special release agent or pin point heat.
Certain things are designed wrong, from an owner maintenance view. I think it is deliberate in some cases.
A recent rejection was because one steering rack boot has split. These are also known as steering ball joint bellows. I got a quote of, (sit down) $350.00 to replace it. They explained that the tie rod end/knuckle had to be taken off and then alignment etc.
The thing is, I already did that 2 years ago. The problem was the the boot, for it would not expand over the the tie rod- no way. Oh I used every thin lick of plastic and grease to get it on, just too darn tight. OTOH : the boot I jigged up 8 years ago was fine. I'm not sure where it came from, probably a McPherson strut. I was in a hurry then and managed to pull the bellows hole completely over the tie rod joint. Then find the proper size rubber bushing, split one side, force it around the tie rod and place it into the bellows hole. Clamped tight, still okay.

[SteveHGraham]

I'm feeling pretty smug right now. I came up with a cheap exhaust fix that ought to work. I'm going to put a small elbow on my exhaust pipe (which is still attached to my manifold). That will point me away from stuff under the exhaust pipe. Then I'm going to attach a curved 10" chrome tip to the elbow. That will get me below the frame so the gas can go out away from the inside of the tractor. I'm going to try dropping a motorcycle exhaust baffle into the chrome tip to see if it will make the exhaust noise more pleasant.

For 60 bucks, I should be in business, and unlike an OEM muffler, it won't snap off because of excess weight. I don't know if my solution will arrest sparks, but I have clearly been running the tractor with no muffler at all for two years, and nothing important has burned down.

I don't know how important a real muffler is. My Kubota has a real muffler, and I still have to wear hearing protection. I don't know if the OEM John Deere muffler would make any difference in my life, apart from increasing my frustration.

[BadDog]

Shouldn't a company that charges $256 for a can have enough R&D money to make its products less painful to own?

It's all about goals. And their goals are basically diametrically opposed to your/our goals...

[spro]

It shouldn't be that. It should be friendly to the user/ maintainer leaving no doubt that improvements were done along the way. OTOH; compact tractors cost so much that any issue with expensive trans/ axles may be blamed upon non -oem modifications. This voids some warranty when they see the belts and engine had been cooked.

[Harold_V]

I agree. Goals.
JD's goal appears, at least to me, to be to separate JD equipment owners from as much of their money as they can, providing a minimum of value for their extortion.

We've owned an LT150 lawn tractor (mower) for several years. I've always complained about the seemingly excessive cost of replacing the air filter, which has never fully filtered the incoming air, proven by the fact that the inside of the filter becomes covered with a film of brown dirt. We mow what grows here, which is commonly done in our area. It is not a manicured lawn.

I recently did a search (online) for replacement air filters and found small "kits" for a very reasonable price, including fuel filters, hose clamps, as well as a taller air filter than that provided by JD. The price was reasonable, although it had to be shipped from China (where I strongly suspect the JD filters are also made). Imagine my surprise to discover, for the first time since we've owned this tractor, I found the interior of the air filter perfectly clean after a mowing session. It actually fits as it is supposed to.

I have little to say that would be supportive of JD. It is my opinion that their attitude towards the consumer leaves a great deal to be desired------

H

[rrnut-2]

Trust me, they are all like that. I have had bad experiences with Kubota and Honda as well.

Jim B

[Harold_V]

Trust me, they are all like that. I have had bad experiences with Kubota and Honda as well.

Jim B

True, that, at least as far as Kubota is concerned. I had to obtain a new key for my Kubota. Went to the dealership and inquired. The only thing they needed to know to provide the proper key was the model, as they are all keyed alike. That tells me they make keys in bulk. They needed "only" $6.00 for the simple key. I was totally disgusted. Told them they could keep it, that I wasn't in the mood for romance. Went back to my shop and made one from a small piece of stainless, wide enough to permit holding the key comfortably while it goes through the pre-heat function.

I wonder why I do almost everything myself? Couldn't be because the objective of so many folks, these days, is to grab as much unearned money as is possible could it?

Didn't think so!

H

[SteveM]

This makes me go off the deep end.

We had someone here that had a fire damage a wiring harness for the rear defroster in a BMW. The cost to repair it? $14,000 because it will take 70 hours of labor to get at it.

Subaru undersized the hatch wiring in some of their wagons. The harnesses cost more than $500 for the pair just for the parts.

I remember than when you were working on a VW, when you were working on the engine, you just replaced the water pump anyway because the part cost $20 and you were already working on the car, so why not. My father-in-law's Passat needed to have the entire nose of the car removed.

It's getting to the point where you can't even change the oil in your own car.

Appliances are the worst.

Electronics SHOULD in theory make things more reliable.

As they say: "In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice. they rarely are."

The most reliable washer and dryer out there is (literally the ONLY reliable washer and dryer) is Speed Queen - all of their controls are mechanical.

Went shopping for a range. Looked at a pretty high end model and the controls felt like they were made by Fisher-Price.

A friend who is the service manager for a small chain of appliance stores tells me that the repairman has to go to the house first, pull the unit apart, get the information off the board, then leave the owner with a non-functioning appliance for 2-3 weeks while they get the part (more if they have to get it from China). The model and serial number aren't enough to tell you what board is in it.

Steve

[rrnut-2]

To replace the air filter on an 1800 Goldwing, 6 hours - if you don't want to break any plastic. And the 5 screws on each side of the fairing? Each one is a different size or length! The 1500 was the best engineered and then they went backwards. And the latest one is even worse.

Jim B